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[-] RandomPancake@lemmy.world 141 points 9 months ago

Mark my words:

Trump will win, and it will be largely because of people who refuse to support Biden due to Palestine.

I will be truly happy if time proves me wrong.

[-] CptEnder@lemmy.world 101 points 9 months ago

We should be criticizing our old, conservative president Biden. He needs to 180 his stance.

Also not voting for him in Nov is vapid and invalidates any defense of the Palestinian people you have.

It sucks, but it's reality.

[-] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 64 points 9 months ago

It sucks, but it’s reality.

Yep.

We legitimately have zero options besides voting for Biden.

And I sincerely hope enough voters realize that, because trump will be worse.

The only thing we can do till 2028 is make a lot of noise about how this shit is unacceptable and Dems need to do better

Unfortunately the DNC knows that while we say it's unacceptable, we still have to vote Biden or risk trump.

Which is why the DNC has spent 30 years drifting further and further right. They have captive voters and are willing to risk Republican rule so Dems can be as rightwing as possible.

[-] RandomPancake@lemmy.world 16 points 9 months ago

This is honestly the best take on the issue I've seen so far.

I am the first person to say we need to break the two-party stranglehold on politics. We need independent candidates in office yesterday. But this election is the abso-fucking-lutely worst time to make a run at that, because that third party vote WILL be a vote for Trump. And if you firmly believe that third party or independent politicians have a place, elect them to your local city council or school board or state legislature. That is where they will make a real, actionable difference.

A vote against Biden, no matter who for, is a vote for Trump. No amount of TikTok "well ackshually" will change that reality.

[-] bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social 10 points 9 months ago

>A vote against Biden, no matter who for, is a vote for Trump.

this is election misinformation. a vote for anyone except trump cannot be counted as a vote for trump.

[-] RandomPancake@lemmy.world 18 points 9 months ago

The election is a tug of war. Trump and his supporters are pulling on the right. Biden and his supporters are pulling on the left.

When you vote for an independent candidate, you are removing force that could have been used to pull against Trump and redirecting that force towards a candidate who has zero chance of winning. A vote for an independent candidate is a vote for Trump.

The only valid retort to this is "well I wasn't going to vote anyway" and anyone who feels that way can shut the fuck up about everything.

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[-] Hegar@kbin.social 20 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Yep, I would place the blame on the pro-genocide politicians before the anti-genocide voters.

[-] norbert@kbin.social 17 points 9 months ago

Unfortunately genocide isn't on the ballot so you'll need to base your vote on some other metric.

[-] K1nsey6@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago

Then you better start pushing your party to primary him or get someone else in there. His shitty numbers didnt start overnight, theyve seen the writing on the wall and refused to acknowledge it.

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[-] Blackbeard@lemmy.world 35 points 9 months ago

And then Trump will make things infinitely worse, and we'll have to fight that same stupid battle over who's to blame for the next 4 years. Wash, rinse, repeat.

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[-] Chainweasel@lemmy.world 31 points 9 months ago

Yeah, I don't understand hating Biden for something that Netanyahu is doing. And there's only so much Biden could do other than try to play peacekeeper, which he's been doing. Pretty much any other actions require congressional support. Biden isn't a king, he can't unilaterally declare that we're ending all support for Israel.
And yet an insane number of people act like he's over there killing Palestinians with his bare hands.

[-] NoIWontPickaName@kbin.social 28 points 9 months ago

I know this sounds crazy, but he could not sell them weapons. He is directly supporting what is happening there by doing so.

Call back carrier groups, stop selling weapons, and let them deal with their own fucking problems that they caused

[-] RandomPancake@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago

By all means, elect Trump and see if he does any better with human rights.

[-] K1nsey6@lemmy.world 13 points 9 months ago

It doesnt get much worse than death. Liberals will justify any and every possible action to defend the blue fascist by claiming the red one could be worse. What happened to 'push him left after the election'

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[-] Blackbeard@lemmy.world 15 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Not to mention Israel is absolutely the most important ally we have in the middle east. As lovely as it would be to openly shit on them and Saudi Arabia for being inhumane jerks, we just don't have that option. The second we alienate Israel is the second WWIII becomes virtually inevitable. Biden's choosing between shitty options and shittier options, and like it or not, we need foreign allies in strategic locations, especially since Pax Americana is rapidly collapsing.

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[-] alvvayson@lemmy.world 20 points 9 months ago

You could also argue, if Biden loses it will be because of his uncritical support for Israeli war crimes.

Nobody is forcing Biden to alienate his base.

And, although I personally don't believe Joe is supporting genocide, it's not very realistic to expect people to vote for someone who (in their mind) is supporting genocide.

[-] ZahzenEclipse@kbin.social 22 points 9 months ago

Has biden truly been uncritical? Don't get wrong, I don't think he's done enough but to say he's bene uncritical seems inaccurate.

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[-] HorseRabbit@lemmy.sdf.org 18 points 9 months ago

Weird way to assign blame. It's not the Democratic party's fault for having bad policies, it's the public's fault for not supporting the Democrats regardless of their policies. If Biden loses it's because his party made bad decisions.

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[-] xor@infosec.pub 12 points 9 months ago

i've been watching this freight train loom ever closer and... thank you for seeing it too...
this is the albatross around the neck of biden... and it's killing my soul
i know, in my heart, trump would've done the same thing, and many worse things...
but ffs, why are the liberals completely blind to a blatant genocide?

[-] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago

I think taking the delegates from NH because moderates keep losing to progressives is a bigger deal that will effect turnout.

Biden's and the DNC's excuse that the state Dem party wasn't able to convince the Republicans running NH into changing the law that NH has to schedule primaries first is an incredibly flimsy excuse.

There was nothing the NH Dem party could do to comply with the DNC.

And of all people, Biden should have been understanding that Dems can't force Republicans to do something they don't want to do.

Just making the demand to begin with was incredibly fucked up.

It was an impossible demand, and they act like it was an easy thing that the state party could somehow do with a snap of their fingers.

The only way it could have happened, is if the Dem party broke state law.

And a national party demanding a state party break their own laws to give the favored candidate an advantage is something I honestly thought would just be a Republican thing at least for a couple more elections cycles.

[-] norbert@kbin.social 10 points 9 months ago

Oh look a concern troll that's sooooooo concerned about NH and state party rules. This person 100% actually cares and isn't just trying to suppress the left vote.

[-] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago

I'm concerned that the only other option in American politics besides trump just wiped out an entire states primary for something the state party can't control...

If you're not upset about what that means, I don't know what else to say that wasn't in my first comment.

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[-] prole@sh.itjust.works 83 points 9 months ago

When did lemmy become such a shithole? I know people here tend to be young, but I thought they were generally more intelligent than this shit. So much "genocide Joe" bullshit. People that will refuse to vote, and then completely absolve themselves when they hand it to Trump and the genocide escalates.

It's not about Palestinian lives, it's about making sure you don't feel guilty for personally voting for Joe Biden.

Grow the fuck up

[-] cabron_offsets@lemmy.world 29 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

It’s just idiots, can’t escape them. Not on Reddit, not on Lemmy, and not when it comes to deciding our shared fate via elections. And I assume some portion of the “genocide Joe” crowd are just plants.

[-] PM_Your_Nudes_Please@lemmy.world 18 points 9 months ago

You can demand better from your elected officials, while continuing to vote for them. Joe is a horrible democrat candidate, and I have zero qualms about making that known. But he’s also the only candidate the party has been willing to put forth, so it’s who I’ll end up voting for. That doesn’t mean I need to be happy or enthusiastic about voting for him.

[-] Daxtron2@startrek.website 15 points 9 months ago

Biden is actively giving money to a genocidal state, I'm still going to vote for him because the only other choice is a literal fascist who wants to start genocides here as well.

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[-] return2ozma@lemmy.world 35 points 9 months ago

They repeatedly stopped Biden, who appeared frustrated at times, with chants that included "Genocide Joe" and "How many kids will you kill?" in opposition to his support for Israel in its war against Hamas in Gaza.

Biden supporters drowned them out the protesters with chants of "four more years" and "let's go, Joe."

He struggled to finish his speech, telling the crowd at one point, "They feel deeply."

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[-] BlackRoseAmongThorns@slrpnk.net 34 points 9 months ago

Liberals will still blame his (and Hillary Clinton's) critics instead of the democrats' bad policies and hubris for electing Donald Trump even though those same liberals still talk, think and act like republicans and willing just as much to throw the handicapped, the queer, the women and the racial minorities under the bus all just for neo-liberal policies that are not too different from Trump's.

speaking of, much of what was done against abortion was not reversed and is destined to keep being dangled above those liberals' head, and then they'll say we shouldn't criticize the holy neo liberal savior so he could reverse Trump's clownery just for this to go all over again.

[-] fox2263@lemmy.world 19 points 9 months ago

Free Women, Free Ukraine, Free Palestine (from Hamas AND Israel), Free America (from Trump)

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this post was submitted on 24 Jan 2024
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