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submitted 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) by Gemini24601@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world

Everyone can agree on VLC being the best video player, right? Game developers can agree on it too, since it is a great utility for playing multimedia in games, and/or have a video player included. However, disaster struck; Unity has now banned VLC from the Unity Store, seemingly due to it being under the LGPL license which is a "Violation of section 5.10.4 of the Provider agreement." This is a contridiction however. According to Martin Finkel in the linked article, "Unity itself, both the Editor and the runtime (which means your shipped game) is already using LGPL dependencies! Unity is built on libraries such as Lame, libiconv, libwebsockets and websockify.js (at least)." Unity is swiftly coming to it's demise.

Edit: link to Videolan Blog Post: https://mfkl.github.io/2024/01/10/unity-double-oss-standards.html

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[-] DocMcStuffin@lemmy.world 264 points 10 months ago

Found the article where the screenshot came from, and wow it's even more infuriating! The VideoLAN folks tried to work with them for months, and Unity seems to have cranial rectal inversion.

[-] mastefetri@infosec.pub 127 points 10 months ago

Unity is probably developing their own video player and they wants devs to pay them for it, not use VLC for free.

[-] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 25 points 10 months ago

This is almost certainly the case

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[-] dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de 25 points 10 months ago

😑↔️🍑

[-] yetAnotherUser@lemmy.ca 221 points 10 months ago

For anyone wondering:

  1. There was a plugin on Unity Store that acted a bridge between Unity and libVLC, which allowed developers to make video players inside the game engine. As the post says, it got removed.
  2. This plugin isn't made by VideoLAN, it's made by a company named Videolabs that includes several people who supposedly have contributed a lot on VLC and FFMPEG.
  3. The Videolan team made a blog post about this, if you want to know more: https://mfkl.github.io/2024/01/10/unity-double-oss-standards.html
[-] jrgd@lemm.ee 91 points 10 months ago

VideoLabs is made up of many of the same contributors of VideoLAN, including Jean-Baptiste Kempf themself. It is arguable that this is in fact Unity banning VideoLAN's VLC bridges for media playback in Unity.

[-] uhmbah@lemmy.ca 141 points 10 months ago

Front VLC blog, link in post above

"After months of slow back-and-forth over email trying to find a compromise, including offering to exclude LGPL code from the assets, Unity basically told us we were not welcome back to their Store, ever. Even if we were to remove all LGPL code from the Unity package.

Where it gets fun is that there are currently hundreds if not thousands of Unity assets that include LGPL dependencies (such as FFmpeg) in the Store right now. Enforcement is seemingly totally random, unless you get reported by someone, apparently."

[-] alienangel@sffa.community 42 points 10 months ago

Any reason not to expect all the others to get reported now? If Unity wants to tear themselves down, might as well speed it up.

[-] Cqrd@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 10 months ago

According to the article, unity is literally built on software that uses this licensing, so it's weird that they'd start going against it now. Their runtime literally includes it

[-] rob_t_firefly@lemmy.world 15 points 10 months ago

Time to report Unity to itself so it can ban itself from its store.

[-] fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works 9 points 10 months ago

Is there legal grounds for selective enforcement of policies like that?

[-] abhibeckert@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Depends on the reason they chose to have selective enforcement.

A good analogy is kicking someone out of a bar. If you do it because they're a dickhead... perfectly fine. But if it's because they're black... not OK.

[-] Iceblade02@lemmy.world 12 points 10 months ago

... so what you do is set up a rule that everybody will break - "no drinking with shoes on" - and only enforce it against people you want to kick out 👍

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[-] gerbler@lemmy.world 119 points 10 months ago

What pisses me off about the whole Unity thing is that if Unity makes itself eat shit then it just further consolidates engines into fewer hands. Godot is great and all but it doesn't have everything Unreal has (I'm not throwing shade it'll get there dw) and I really really don't want Epic to have a bigger stranglehold on the games industry than it already does.

Unity had its niche and if the executives could stop fucking around it would be lovely to have as a competitor in the landscape.

Also to everyone saying "just don't use Unity": there are a lot of people who have put a lot of time and money and effort into learning Unity and it's not exactly as easy as you think to just switch to an entirely new workflow. You also have to consider how impractical it is to switch engines mid-development. There's a reason why Unreal 5 has been out for multiple years and we're only just seeing games developed with it now. Developers (especially ones with big budgets and all the caveats they come with) don't want to ship a game with the latest and greatest engine if there's kinks to be worked out. This is why you still see Unreal 4 in games released today.

[-] Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.ca 32 points 10 months ago

It almost makes me think the higher ups got paid to kill Unity. All the C-suite got golden parachutes if they kill the project now.

Then I remember OGL and the fat lack of competition they had, and remember C-suite often don't know what they're actually in charge of. Malice vs stupidity and such.

[-] space@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 10 months ago

The C suites have nothing to lose. Best case, they make more money, worst case they get replaced and hired as a C suite by some other company.

[-] AnyOldName3@lemmy.world 29 points 10 months ago

Epic donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to Godot when Unity was being dumb this summer, so either they think an open-source project is on the brink of making their competitor unprofitable and collapse, and think enough of the studios jumping ship will come to Unreal to cover that sum, or they're concerned that someone will start enforcing antitrust laws and want something to point at to say they're not a monopoly.

[-] AstridWipenaugh@lemmy.world 29 points 10 months ago

Epic is just a troll company. They donated to Godot when it served as a jab in the side of their competition (unity). Their entire business model is to inflict Stockholm Syndrome on their users via free games.

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[-] NegativeInf@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago

Both. Definitely both.

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[-] Alsephina@lemmy.ml 96 points 10 months ago

Lmao they really don't want anyone to keep using their engine anymore

[-] Arete@lemmy.world 81 points 10 months ago

LGPL requires distributing the license with any code. I imagine unity does that with the core code, but it would be difficult to enforce that for assets distributed in their store, which they would be liable for legally. I imagine this will be resolved, but I no longer use Unity so idfc

[-] Davel23@kbin.social 50 points 10 months ago

From my understanding there are other third-party assets in the Unity store which use the LGPL but are not being removed.

[-] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 11 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Is there any information on them being given a pass?

Generally stuff like this goes in waves. I have no experience with the unity store, but it wouldn't shock me to find out they haven't always (and still might not...) required "apps" to list their licensing. Meaning this would be a somewhat manual effort done by a severely reduced staff.

And I'll just add on that I expect this to happen to the other "asset" stores. In industry, "GPL is cancer" and "LGPL is herpes". GPL can straight up "kill" a project and LGPL is usually a mass of headaches that are mostly manageable but can still "cause problems" at times.

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[-] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 24 points 10 months ago

No it won't. This is 5.10.4 of the Unity Provider agreement, it's total bullshit.

Provider represents and warrants that its Assets shall not contain (a) any software licensed under the GNU General Public License or GNU Library or Lesser General Public License, or any other license with terms that include a requirement to extend such license to any modification or combined work and provide for the distribution of the combined or modified product’s source code upon demand so that Customer content becomes subject to the terms of such license; or (b) any software that is a modification or derivative of any software licensed under the GNU General Public License or Library or Lesser Public License, or any other license with terms similar thereto so that Customer content become subject to the terms of such license.

[-] admin@lemmy.my-box.dev 18 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Why is it bullshit? AFAIK, Unity wouldn't be able to comply with LGPL without supplying their own source code, so then this would be the only logical outcome.

[-] RedditWanderer@lemmy.world 25 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Unity let me go earlier this week, so I'm really not in the mood to defend them, but this is correct. I'm on the Unity hate train as much as the next guy and i feel this is pretty cut and dry.

[-] admin@lemmy.my-box.dev 11 points 10 months ago

Sad to hear it, hope you'll find something else soon.

[-] RedditWanderer@lemmy.world 18 points 10 months ago

Thankfully I'm in Canada where Collective Layoffs are heavily protected, and I have a generous package to keep me afloat until I find the right job.

It is a sad week for tech because not everyone has these protections.

[-] grue@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago

No, it's not correct. Unity's management might think that's how the LGPL works, but they're wrong.

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[-] tabular@lemmy.world 20 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

You are only required to give source code for changes to that part for LGPL code. So only the library requires that.

Other game engines supply source code. If Unity wants any hope of redemption they should let us inspect wtf it actually does on our computers (edit: and let us make it work for our needs).

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[-] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago

Unity uses the LGPL for parts of their own products. The GPL in most cases only requires that derivative work must also be shipped with the same license. The source code from providers doesn't have to be distributed by unity, it has to be distributed by the provider. In this case that would be videoLAN, which has all their source code on GitHub. You can read the text of the LGPL here, and this is VideoLAN's post about the situation.

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[-] helenslunch@feddit.nl 37 points 10 months ago

Okay but what's the real reason?

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[-] reddig33@lemmy.world 35 points 10 months ago

Why does VLC need to be in the Unity store when you can download it directly from videolan.org?

[-] pricklypearbear@lemmy.world 25 points 10 months ago

Not a game developer but I have a hunch that its for displaying videos within the game. Like a cut scene.

[-] Caligvla@lemmy.dbzer0.com 35 points 10 months ago

Everyone can agree on VLC being the best video player, right?

cough mpv cough

[-] snooggums@kbin.social 19 points 10 months ago

We already know mpv causes upper respiratory infection, cover your mouth already.

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[-] cbarrick@lemmy.world 31 points 10 months ago

Just report every other package that includes ffmpeg.

[-] KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml 27 points 10 months ago

Some of these comments are wack. "Just stop using Unity" bro some people don't get that choice.

[-] thoughts3rased@sopuli.xyz 12 points 10 months ago

Brb let me completely rewrite all my unity projects and learn unreal in a single day

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[-] Gerula@lemmy.world 25 points 10 months ago

Ohhh no, VLC has some problems with... who's this Unity fellow again?

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[-] pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe 18 points 10 months ago

Stop using Unity, you hopeless retards

[-] sebinspace@lemmy.world 16 points 10 months ago

OH FUCK WOW ITS THAT FUCKEN SIMPLE HOLY SHIT MY MIND IS BLOWN.

Hopeless retard.

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[-] just_another_person@lemmy.world 17 points 10 months ago
[-] CaptainBasculin@lemmy.ml 23 points 10 months ago

So does most popular game engines (like Unreal and Godot) to give game developers easier access to certain content they can use in their games.

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[-] Beardedsausag3@kbin.social 16 points 10 months ago

I went out for a walk earlier, not too far just couple of miles to clear my head. Get some fresh air. Anyway, regardless of how many signs my council like to spend money on to display the consequence of leaving your dogs shit, people still do it. Fact is, I saw a dog shit and it's getting harder to differentiate that dog shit and Unity.

[-] Dudewitbow@lemmy.zip 10 points 10 months ago

Everyone can agree on VLC being the best video player, right?

until vlc has a MadVR quality equivalent, no. youre objectively having a worse visual renderer.

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[-] fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works 9 points 10 months ago

@gardiner_bryant@mastodon.online Unity just gets worse.

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this post was submitted on 12 Jan 2024
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