~13 people in the US have died from a "shooting"during 8 separate events 7 days into 2024, another ~30 injured.
I'm also not saying state enforced concealed carry bans are the way, but you guys gotta do something.
About half were murder suicides, a quarter were drive-by shootings and the last quarter were bar/party fights.
How many of those shootings were committed by someone who has a CHL? How many are committed by felons or criminals who are already prohibited from carrying any guns anywhere?
Yeah, it's nuts how weak this California bill was and we can't even that passed. Legit pathetic.
Can't imagine having to raise kids in this country. Parents are brave, not giving a shit about all the legal guns
Sadly were stuck between "ban guns" and "ban banning guns" with little to no consideration for the underlying issues.
I guess that's too hard a platform to campaign on, though
Pro/con 100% ban is an easy lever to pull unfortunately, for all sides. Republicans get essentially free votes and campaign dollars from very active and hardline single-issue voters, Democrats get fundraising and media time from pushing restrictions (regardless of efficacy). The needle moves left a little here, right a little there, but the core of 2A and the societal effects are untouched.
The huge number of suicides get shuffled off to ‘we need better mental health’ soundbites and individual responsibility to ‘reach out if you can’t cope’. Red flag laws may not survive court challenges surrounding due process post-Heller ruling with strict scrutiny, but there needs to be something there for imminent harm prevention.
Taking guns away from domestic abusers gets a pass because both sides don’t dare pull on that thread, lest 25-40% of police officers be disarmed because they abuse their partners. Best we can do for 4473 denials for those under restraining order, and prior convictions apparently?
There’s hope for a positive way forward, but it’s not done by laser focusing on the problem as a purely gun issue. It’s a mixture of social and economic issues that manifest largely in intra-community violence, and while I’ve only seen Oakland CA take a crack at untangling that one, they’ve seen results already.
Common sense, data and actual arguments? Yes, those are completely useless as a platform since post-factual populism has replaced real politics.
No votes or money in actually reading the amendment or looking at the spring loaded bolt common to all semi-auto weapons. (Not just the scary looking ones). If we can't even do that what hope do we have of actually bringing our mental health system back, or dealing with the orphan crushing machine that drives many people to crime in the first place.
Legal cigarettes smokable anywhere make it easier for illegal cigarettes to proliferate, and harder to tell who is actually allowed to smoke them.
Plenty of citizens in developed countries where this doesn't happen have the right to own and carry guns.
Excuse me? We’re not allowed to stop people from bringing their gun into the bank??
I believe the bank is allowed to prohibit it, the state isn't allowed to prohibit it.
You're worried about the people who have never once robbed a bank? Worry about the criminals without legal ccws.
How about no one else with a gun is allowed to bring it in, so that when the guards/cops start aiming at the people with the guns they won’t be aiming at the wrong people? Why do you need your gun in a bank? There are armed guards there. You don’t need to be a cosplay hero in a bank.
It's a concealed carry license, not open carry, and you're imagining a problem that I'm not even sure if it has ever happened in California, and if it has, it's very rare.
What about the far more common event of a criminal targeting a person who is leaving the bank and going back to their car to rob them of their new withdrawal? They should be able to protect themselves against lethal force.
How common is that event?
Armed robbery or all violent crime? Here's some stats: https://www.ppic.org/wp-content/uploads/JTF_CrimeTrendsJTF.pdf
tl;dr: there's a lot of crime in California, it's tracked. There's not a lot of cops and armed guards shooting people with legal ccws.
I’m talking about the thing you said was a more common event. I’m wondering how often people get robbed at gunpoint in the bank parking lot.
I don't have stats on that particular situation, it's not tracked, but I could find a video within 2 seconds of looking that happened within the last two years: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cQeM0ilep5U
And now having watched the video, it's clear to me that a bank will not keep you safe. I think allowing people with ccws to carry into banks is a good idea, given this kind of thing "happens every day".
I just figured since you’re telling me it’s a lot more common, you would have some stats to back that up. One example is a good start though. But again, why do you need a gun inside the bank?
When you live in LA you hear about shit happening all the time.
Because going from your vehicle to the bank, and from the bank back to your vehicle is not safe. There's nowhere next to the bank to deposit your weapon before entering, therefore the only way to carry on the way to the bank requires being armed inside it too.
So would you agree then that the state should be able to require you to check your guns at the door of the bank?
The state? No. The Bank as a private business? Well they can certainly try.
Sure, if they provide the same level of security we have at airports, and jails, which have the same restrictions, that's fine by me. Disarming legal ccws and providing no security is reprehensible.
The armed guard isn’t enough?
Unfortunately not, they're stuck in the building, and have no obligation to help you, they're there to protect the bank, not you. And you can see how well the "armed guard" helped in the YouTube video above: they weren't even armed nor were they there.
It is common enough that bank employees are trained to open bank branches in pairs only after driving loops around the parking lot to check for hidden robbers, as standard branch opening procedure. Robbers have figured out that banks have money in them.
It's allowed in the vast majority of the country.
Like where? I live in TX and many, if not all banks have signage disallowing guns.
That’s the bank, not the state.
Texas really isn't the gun friendly mecca people think it is, when it comes to gun rights it's solidly "meh." I don't know of any states where banks are statutory sensitive locations other than CA and I think the current NY and CT bills. As far as Texas goes it is up to the bank and must be properly signed to have the force of law behind the sign. Many locations do not give the force of law to a posted sign unless it's at a location with a specific prohibition already in the law.
Businesses also have a broad right to refuse service and have people written up for trespassing if they refuse to leave. Having a gun is not a protected class. At that point hanging a sign saying no guns is completely enforceable unless the state requires some specific thing. For the record, states making gun owners a semi-protected class that requires specific signs and only at sensitive businesses is bullshit. Private businesses aren't responsible to the Constitution and the state interest in protecting gun owners (who can just lock half the gun in their car) is nowhere near their interest in making sure the economy doesn't split along racial lines.
Signs not having the force of law doesn't make gun owners a protected class, it just puts an explicitly enumerated right on par with every other day to day activity. If you wear a fanny pack into a convenience store with a "no bags" sign you don't go straight to jail and if you walk into a McDonalds without a shirt or shoes they have to ask you to leave before it's the actual crime of trespassing. Guns are literally the only scenario where in some states ignoring a single sign on publicly open private property is an actual crime.
Well, the bank is allowed to ban them. The court (operating under a ridiculous SCOTUS ruling) is saying it doesn't think the government can ban them in private businesses or open areas.
Imagine stopping some basic civilization safety law based on a "far west era" decision
Firearms were banned in most towns in the Old West, for obvious reasons.
Yep, the wild West had more and better gun control than modern society. How fucked up is that. That's what 60 years of propaganda and brainly rot will do to you though. Most people who claim to be second amendment supporters need to learn basic English grammar. Commas don't separate to distinct thoughts. They separate two linked subjects. Granted the second amendment is definitely a case of comma gore. As well as being an archaic and obtuse use of them.
There's far more support behind that right from the founding fathers than a comma.
Username checks out. You are a case study for exactly what I was talking about.
Modern grammatical functions aren't sufficient to deduce the original intent of an article of that period. English was a far less standardized language at the time.
A better way to ascertain that original intent would be to compare it to their other writings, like the Federalist Papers or correspondences.
Actually they 100% are. The usage of the comma in the English language has not changed in many hundreds of years. It's pretty clear from the statement what the framers meant. You don't need to look outside the statement. The words mean things all on their own. It's not cryptic. It's perfectly cogent and understandable.
The framers intended there to be no standing or national army. And therefore set about in the second amendment to establish the armament of state militias for the protection of the people. No more, no less. The modern application of the second amendment is a warped bastardization no matter how you look at it.
They did intend for there to be no sizable standing army, but that doesn't proclude the people from bearing arms for the purpose of self defense.
"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms..." -Adams, MA Ratifying Convention, 1788
“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” -Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccari in Commonplace Book
"The people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms" -Madison, Philadelphia Federal Gazette June 18, 1789, Pg. 2, Col. 2 Article on the Bill of Rights
But don't forget, the people saying those things didn't have access to semi-automatic or fully automatic weapons, or anything much fancier than a musket. You can't blindly apply laws written that long ago to the modern day because it's something that those mythical founders just couldn't even imagine.
-Belton Flintlock Repeater https://youtu.be/E2kIPmuXMWU?si=
-Puckle Gun https://youtu.be/GPC7KiYDshw?si=
-Girardoni Air Rifle https://youtu.be/2dZLeEUE940?si=
-Chambers Machine Gun https://youtu.be/rCuVMx5h1x0?si=
In which you find the Federalists arguing that a militia is only needed until there can be a standing army. And the Anti-Federalists arguing for state controlled militias as a counterbalance to any federal force. Nobody in those papers was arguing for 100 percent free carry and stand your ground laws. Guns were supposed to stay at home or in the armory unless required for a specific task.
even back then common sense was a thing so
SCOTUS literally made up history in their decision. (Gun laws have to have had an analogue in the 1792-1820 period) Guns were absolutely forbidden to carry around in most towns and cities. In fact the Sullivan Act that they specifically used this logic on was passed in 1911. And the courts didn't have a problem with it until over a hundred years later.
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