244
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 07 Jan 2024
244 points (100.0% liked)
News
31214 readers
2600 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
Actually they 100% are. The usage of the comma in the English language has not changed in many hundreds of years. It's pretty clear from the statement what the framers meant. You don't need to look outside the statement. The words mean things all on their own. It's not cryptic. It's perfectly cogent and understandable.
The framers intended there to be no standing or national army. And therefore set about in the second amendment to establish the armament of state militias for the protection of the people. No more, no less. The modern application of the second amendment is a warped bastardization no matter how you look at it.
They did intend for there to be no sizable standing army, but that doesn't proclude the people from bearing arms for the purpose of self defense.
But don't forget, the people saying those things didn't have access to semi-automatic or fully automatic weapons, or anything much fancier than a musket. You can't blindly apply laws written that long ago to the modern day because it's something that those mythical founders just couldn't even imagine.
-Belton Flintlock Repeater https://youtu.be/E2kIPmuXMWU?si=
-Puckle Gun https://youtu.be/GPC7KiYDshw?si=
-Girardoni Air Rifle https://youtu.be/2dZLeEUE940?si=
-Chambers Machine Gun https://youtu.be/rCuVMx5h1x0?si=
Neither did tyrants or criminals
They had cannons and bombs, yet those didn't get special mention...
So where in any of those quotes do they say that specifically to do with outside of the militia? In a militia, people always provided their own weapons. They held them privately and took them to drills and gatherings for the militia. Each. One of those quotes is completely in line with that concept.
You're going to need to show me some quotes. Outlining that they need to keep weapons personally to shoot their neighbors or people that they don't like just for fun. Or something like Madison or pining how every American needs a gun to shove up their ass to keep warm during the winter or something. Because none of those quotes specifically say that this is intended for outside of the militia. Each and every quote can be interpreted with that in mind. Or you can go against the wording of the second amendment. And try to interpret this in ways that the founders did not intend, which is what we've done for many amendments. Some good, some bad.
Because at the time, there was no concept of "inside" or "outside" the militia, other than women and children, who unfortunately didn't warrant much consideration.
In any case, it's quite clear - the 2a doesn't say "the militia shall be allowed to have guns" it says "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". The militia is brought up more to underline the importance of this right - if we want to be able to defend ourselves (be it individually or collectively) we must have access to weapons.
Then how can you in honesty or good faith hand wave away the talk of militia. You can't.
False. This is the literal text of the 2nd amendment.
"A well regulated Militia", primary subject. "being necessary to the security of a free State", core thought. "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms", connected secondary subject. The militia being the people. "shall not be infringed.", conclusion.
Yes, the militia was not a separate concept from the people, they were used interchangeably, there was no inside vs outside the militia. I'm glad we agree
So you're saying the 2nd amendment concerns the militia? It's funny then that you all constantly insist that 2/3 of the text of the second amendment doesn't exist.