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Hamas Used Gaza Hospital as a Command Center, U.S. Intelligence Says (www.nytimes.com)

submitted 10 months ago by Rapidcreek@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

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[-] kvasir476@lemmy.world 118 points 10 months ago

Hmm, I seem to recall US Intelligence swearing that Saddam Hussein definitely had WMDs and was definitely about to use them on his own people and we definitely needed to invade Iraq to stop him. US Intelligence is not a fact or truth seeking operation; its purpose is to further American imperial interests all else be damned.

[-] jonne@infosec.pub 45 points 10 months ago

Hasn't the IDF been in control of the hospital for like a month, and are yet to produce any evidence (those 3 rifles and the calendar don't count)?

[-] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 25 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

They kidnapped the hospital director and tortured him until he confessed that he was Hamas. That's way better than video and photo evidence of the huge base they claimed was underneath the hospital.

Look at this cool video of this 3d animation the IDF made before they started attacking the hospital. That looks more realistic than real life. In fact it looks so realistic that actual video footage wouldn't do these tunnels justice. Which is why the IDF isn't providing it.

You can trust Bidens word. Surely he would never lie about completely unverified ridiculous Zionist claims

[-] Bitrot@lemmy.sdf.org 28 points 10 months ago

They also insisted for years that a baby formula factory was a chemical weapons plant.

[-] breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca 22 points 10 months ago

To be fair, they also said Russia was about to invade Ukraine and no one believed them.

[-] Jumi@lemmy.world 20 points 10 months ago

It's hard to believe someone's telling the truth if they lied about almost everything else.

[-] Critical_Insight@feddit.uk 15 points 10 months ago

One does not really need US intelligence's confirmation to undestand that the use of human shields is standard operating procedure for islamistic terrorists. It's not that they don't care about their own citizens but they simply don't see getting martyred as a bad thing. Quite the opposite.

[-] Candelestine@lemmy.world 11 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

To me it comes down to a strategic approach. In how many ways is it possible for Hamas to actually hurt Israel in a significant way? Not very many, even thousands of civilians dead doesn't genuinely weaken the country much. But they can make Israel hurt themselves, by basically making them go evil and lose their allies.

Similar to how Bin Laden very much succeeded in his goals for the Sept 11th attack, by getting us to pass the Patriot Act, invade some countries and start ripping ourselves apart imo.

Regardless, arguing this position on here is going to be like trying to swim up a waterfall. Israel has gone too far, and the hate against them is too strong because of that. The middle of a war is not the time for nuance.

edit for a qualifier

[-] FishFace@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

Similar to how Bin Laden very much succeeded in his goals for the Sept 11th attack, by getting us to pass the Patriot Act, invade some countries and start ripping ourselves apart.

Bin Laden's goals were to get Americans to replace their government with one that would get out of the Arabian peninsula and stop supporting Israel. He consummately failed.

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[-] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 13 points 10 months ago

Hopefully they're giving real intel to the decision makers, but anything released to the public is intended for influence purposes. Nothing in their mission requires or even encourages telling the general public true things.

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[-] cosmicrookie@lemmy.world 56 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Even if it did, and I wouldn't take Israels best ally as complitelly objective fact, you don't just bomb a whole hospital full of civilians

[-] Critical_Insight@feddit.uk 9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Isn't this the same hospital Israel allegedly leveled a few months back?

Edit: Nope, it was Al-Ahli Arab hospital.

[-] cosmicrookie@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

The article says it's the attack from November

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[-] Marsupial@quokk.au 35 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Saddam’s WMDs were also hidden in the still to appear gigantic, impossible to avoid command centre tunnel network under the hospital.

[-] Bonesince1997@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago

Would you like a slice of yellow cake?

[-] steventhedev@lemmy.world 32 points 10 months ago

AP have the most comprehensive coverage of the document, which is not publicly available. Two sections in jump out to me:

“The U.S. Intelligence Community is confident in its judgment on this topic and has independently corroborated information on HAMAS and PIJ’s use of the hospital complex for a variety of purposes related to its campaign against Israel,” the assessment states. It continues that it believes the groups “used the al-Shifa hospital complex and sites beneath it to house command infrastructure, exercise certain command and control activities, store some weapons, and hold at least a few hostages.”

And

The U.S. believes that Hamas members evacuated days before Israel raided the complex on Nov. 15 and that they destroyed sensitive documents and electronics before Israeli troops entered the facility.

[-] jonne@infosec.pub 16 points 10 months ago

And the source of the intelligence is probably Israel itself?

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[-] wurzelgummidge@lemmy.world 29 points 10 months ago

U.S. Intelligence Says

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 15 points 10 months ago

The actual news here is the declassified document. Which according to the article is just a note saying we believe the IDF.

Yup totally confidence inspiring.

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[-] Vivios@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

Bombed UN facilities in Gaza was used by Hamas as counterfeit olive oil factories, U.S. Intelligence Says

[-] Gazumi@lemmy.world 29 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

This "news" only really serves as justification for the blowing up of hospitals and civilians

[-] AFaithfulNihilist@lemmy.world 26 points 10 months ago

Did they use the part of the hospital Israel built to be a bunker as their command center?

Are we considering armed guards at hospitals to be war crimes now, because Israel built that bunker and definitely stations armed guards at all of its hospitals.

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[-] deft@ttrpg.network 20 points 10 months ago

Lol what does this matter?

Israel committed so much more heinous atrocities I honestly give no fuck that an oppressed people have a terrorist group lashing out using a hospital as a base.

Israel lied about the sexual assault and baby mutilations, they are ar performing genocide and they've oppressed these people for generations.

Fuck Israel

[-] SCB@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

honestly give no fuck that an oppressed people have a terrorist group lashing out using a hospital as a base.

You're rooting for terrorists operating from hospitals.

I am in shock that you think this is defensible.

[-] deft@ttrpg.network 16 points 10 months ago

You're rooting for terrorists performing genocide

If my two options are terrorists doing a genocide and terrorists doing a war crime (because of you know the genocide they're facing and decades of oppression)

It easily makes sense why.

[-] SCB@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

You’re rooting for terrorists performing genocide

I don't support Hamas, the only group actively and openly pursuing genocide in this conflict.

[-] deft@ttrpg.network 12 points 10 months ago

Then you don't know history of this conflict at all and should probably learn.

[-] SCB@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

The irony of this comment is palpable.

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[-] otp@sh.itjust.works 13 points 10 months ago

They're not rooting for the terrorists. When is rooting the same as not giving a fuck?

I think they're saying that Israel has gone so far overboard that they can't find a good enough excuse to justify their actions.

[-] sailingbythelee@lemmy.world 12 points 10 months ago

It matters because one of the charges leveled against Israel is that they bombed a hospital just to genocide Palestinian babies. Clearly, Hamas was using said babies as human shields, which is a war crime. Now the shoe is on the other foot and Hamas apologists don't like it, so now you just say it doesn't matter, lol.

[-] deft@ttrpg.network 11 points 10 months ago

Nope the shoe literally cannot be on the other foot.

Israel funded Hamas.

Israel has developed this culture in Gaza because of the treatment of Palestinians.

Israel has far more money and resources.

So the instigator with more money/power in the situation causing a genocide after decades of racial abuse gets no pass that shoe cannot go anywhere else

All of Hamas' actions are only happening because of Israel. Sorry

[-] sailingbythelee@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

It's probably true that Netanyahu funded Hamas for cynical reasons. The Israeli right-wing coalition definitely needs to go. But you can't justify Hamas terrorism againsr civilians because the Palestinian people are angry and oppressed. Hamas has agency. They aren't some inexorable force of history. They choose to be terrorists. Hamas was already a radical terrorist organization in its own right, and was duly elected by the people of Gaza as such. Fuck those raping terrorists.

All this back-and-forth revenge is, of course, just a vicious cycle and shouldn't continue. But I am a little tired of this faulty reasoning that Israel is the bad guy just because they are more powerful. Palestinians and Israelis have both done things to provoke violence and both sides have, at various times, rejected peace and compromise. But Hamas is unambiguously a terrorist group that stokes division and whose sole purpose is to eliminate Israel. Hamas is a barrier to peace and will get no sympathy from me.

[-] deft@ttrpg.network 6 points 10 months ago

Israel is the bad guy because they are more powerful.

You refer to Hamas as rapists but not the IDF? You don't mention the bold land grabs and settling of Palestinian land.

Israel is a terrorist group. They aren't treated as such because they are a Nation, they're only a nation because that isn't their land other people lived there first.

You literally touch on every reason why Israel is the first to blame yet refuse to commit to blaming them. When Israel faces consequences then we can talk about Hamas until then it is their fault.

This is not a zero tolerance bullshit school fight. Israel punched first and second and third and forth while having more money and resources and legal power over Palestinians. Hamas wouldn't exist in this way without Israel.

No. Absolutely no to everything you said. When Bibi swings from the gallows we can tear apart Hamas all we want. Until then you play into the bully's hand.

[-] sailingbythelee@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

they're only a nation because that isn't their land other people lived there first.

That is true of every nation. Literally everyone lives on land that was occupied by some other tribe in the past. The really ironic thing about saying that the Palestinians were there "first" is that the UN used precisely that originalist doctrine to justify creating Israel for the Jews in the first place!

[-] deft@ttrpg.network 5 points 10 months ago

So you understand then why Israel is fully to blame?

Everyone does live on some other tribes land. But Israel, America, Canada are different than British and Chinese history in that way.

This is modern day. Those things are still felt. Hell the Irish still feel how the British treated them.

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[-] ashar@infosec.pub 19 points 10 months ago

The evidence was a chair and a rope on the floor in a bombed portion of the hospital.

[-] Doorbook@lemmy.world 18 points 10 months ago

Why they need to justify something we all know is a lie?

[-] ShroOmeric@lemmy.world 16 points 10 months ago

Please, they've been parrotting Israeli propaganda since day one. Their words mean nothing.

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social 13 points 10 months ago

Again this shit?

[-] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago

It's sad the New York Times has fully turned into a Zionist propaganda outlet the last few days.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 11 points 10 months ago

Well they go back and forth. They have demanded better evidence before and here they do point out that this isn't that evidence. It's just a declassified document saying we officially believe the IDF. Which isn't really new.

[-] Octagon9561@lemmy.ml 6 points 10 months ago

US ~~Intelligence~~ Propagandists

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this post was submitted on 03 Jan 2024

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