105
submitted 11 months ago by jackpot@lemmy.ml to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] j4k3@lemmy.world 100 points 11 months ago

The size of the internal wire, solder connection, strain relief, and especially the cable shield size are all factors.

The shield is most critical if you look at the length of wire an miniscule power of any instrument without a powered preamp. Even with a built in preamp the output impedance will be high from most circuits.

Think of it this way, high impedance is another way of saying there is a voltage signal but not much current is able to flow to or from the device. If you try to pull or push too much current the signal will disappear. When there is not much current flowing, the signal is much more susceptible to other signals and noise crossing the wire.

Most 3.5mm audio connectors have poor shielding, strain relief, and the actual connection points where the wires are soldered are terrible. With the way they are constructed, the solder connection must be done very quickly to avoid damaging the thin plastic insulation between the rings that make up the tip terminal. With the larger quarter inch connector, there is a lot more heat mass in the actual terminals and there is enough room to make solder terminals with heat isolation. This helps to match the terminal with a larger wire gage so that both surfaces can evenly wet with solder with a properly set iron temperature. In theory this leads to a far more robust connection.

Most 3.5mm cables are unshielded. This is fine for the low impedance (high current flow) of an amplifier output stage, but it is totally insufficient for the high impedance input of an instrument.

This is why instrument cables generally cost so much more too. You're buying more copper, an engineered cable that has more that just wires in an extruded plastic sleeve, and the connectors are special purpose, beefier, and more engineered for a specialty task.

[-] Funkytom467@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago

Thanks that was a very clear explanation, i appreciate you ❤

[-] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 8 points 11 months ago

Add to all that, back to the dawn of electric guitar, 1/4 inch connectors were simply much more common and readily available.

It became the defacto standard because its what was always used.

[-] davel@lemmy.ml 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)
[-] jeena@jemmy.jeena.net 71 points 11 months ago

While jumping and running on scene you want something sturdy not a whimpy 3.5mm jack.

[-] davel@lemmy.ml 24 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Some folks don’t work shows and it shows 😜

[-] MaxVoltage@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago
[-] Jajcus@kbin.social 67 points 11 months ago

Because 3.5mm jacks suck. 6.3mm jacks are much more sturdy and can be easily mounted on 6mm or even thicker cable, which can also handle much more use.

Flimsy jack and thin cheap cable cable is asking for trouble during performance.

The only plus of 3.5mm and smaller 'phone jacks' is their size and in many applications it is much less important than reliability.

[-] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 3 points 11 months ago
[-] Jajcus@kbin.social 15 points 11 months ago

They do and make reliability even worse.

[-] DaCrazyJamez@sh.itjust.works 36 points 11 months ago

I cant imagin how many 3.5 cables I'd have ruined onstage....they are simplynot stromg enough.

[-] MrJameGumb@lemmy.world 27 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

It would get pulled out or the skinny little cord would break almost immediately

[-] HowMany@lemmy.ml 26 points 11 months ago

The 1/4" jacks became standard before metric ruled the world. Besides, 1/4" jacks are way sturdier than 3.5mm posts. Now if the metric guys came up with a 7.0mm jack - we can talk transition.

[-] LastYearsPumpkin@feddit.ch 8 points 11 months ago

I wonder if a 6.5mm would be within tolerance to be compatible with 1/4" plugs.

[-] averyminya@beehaw.org 5 points 11 months ago

I believe it is, it's not entirely uncommon to see both described. I'm in the U.S. and been working with audio my whole life, 1/4" is for sure the named standard but 6.5mm is often referenced due to the headphone size of 3.5mm often being called that size instead of the 1/8". Especially if you're looking to buy online,

Why headphones are referred to by 3.5mm and the rest (basically) is 1/4" is a silly thing but hey, I don't make the colloquialisms.

The only thing you'd want to watch out for is whether your cable is mono or stereo, which is independent from the barrel size, but does need the barrel to have 2 rings (TRRS vs. TRS), to complete the Tip Ring Sleeve connection.

But yeah, if you need 1/4" and can only find 6.5mm you'll be fine

[-] jackpot@lemmy.ml 3 points 11 months ago

any idea why jbs headphones do a 2.5 male and 3.5 male wire thing? also ik this is offtopic but im looking for headphones that i can use with my audio interface (ive an adapter if needed) and are wireless (so both wired and wireless in one). thoughts? (professional musician btw)

[-] averyminya@beehaw.org 3 points 11 months ago

IIRC theirs are set to 2.5mm at the headphone with 3.5mm as for the device connector. This is pretty common for companies that want to make some form of proprietary connection.

Usually these decisions are media because proprietary connections make them more money selling three or four components of 0.02c cables turned into $5-$25 sales per cable. From a consumer perspective, the only upside to it is that having a replaceable cable can increase longevity, and I suppose from a company perspective in order to ensure 100% compatibility, best to sell your version. That way any 3rd party cables can be the problem.

I think 2.5mm used to be used more commonly on old dumb phones for those headsets and stuff like that. I still see them sometimes but these days it's mostly present on dual plugs like walkies, which is pretty much for mic and audio with a locking mechanism to keep it in place.

Currently I don't have any suggestions for wired/wireless headphones, I wish I did. At the moment my set is the Beyerdynamics DT 990 Pro, I was looking into a version with detachable cables but none that I came across also had wireless - though they're surely out there. It would be nice to have a set to swap between Bluetooth and plugged in.

[-] jackpot@lemmy.ml 1 points 11 months ago

Currently I don't have any suggestions for wired/wireless headphones, I wish I did. At the moment my set is the Beyerdynamics DT 990 Pro, I was looking into a version with detachable cables but none that I came across also had wireless - though they're surely out there. It would be nice to have a set to swap between Bluetooth and plugged in.

if you find some online please tell me what model, you know muxh more so id greatlt appreciatw it

[-] HowMany@lemmy.ml 1 points 11 months ago

I kind of doubt it - the 1/4" tolerances are pretty tight.

[-] juliebean@lemm.ee 12 points 11 months ago

why aren't phones and shit made with 1/4" jacks instead of 3.5mm jacks?

[-] EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted 3 points 11 months ago

Because good luck finding a phone nowadays that's at a bit thicker than 1/4". (It's a shame really; I kinda miss those older, thicker phones...)

[-] bstix@feddit.dk 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Would be better with XLR, but anyway, the jack is the standard that was used in the very first electric guitars.

I'm not sure why they chose that one at the time, but it was the same kind of connection used in telephone boards, so it was already a standard for audio long before the invention of electric guitars. The jack was invited in 1877. Makes sense to use something that already existed and had proven to be reliable and available.

The reason they're still used is for backward compatibility. Other cabled instruments and microphones have changed standards through the years, but because guitars need to be paired with all kinds of amplifiers and stomp boxes from various manufacturers from different decades, it's impossible for one brand to change the standard.

A curious fact is that the 1/4 jack is the longest running connection standard.

With many professionals using wireless cables these days, it could more easily be changed, but at the same time, since going without a cable also removes many of the issues with the jack, there's really no need to change it.

[-] jackpot@lemmy.ml 2 points 11 months ago
[-] bstix@feddit.dk 3 points 11 months ago

It locks, is more durable and balanced.

[-] jackpot@lemmy.ml 2 points 11 months ago
[-] bstix@feddit.dk 2 points 11 months ago

It reduces noise from interference.

An unbalanced cable has two wires. A ground and the signal. The audio is the difference between the two. A guitar cable is unbalanced.

A balanced cable has 3 wires. A ground, a signal (+ hot) and a signal with opposite polarity (- cold). The receiver will flip the polarity of the cold signal and add the two signals. The result is that any interference that happens in the cable is also flipped on the cold signal and thereby cancels the interference on the hot signal.

Put in like math: let's say your audio is 3x and noise is 0.5y An unbalanced cable would deliver 3x + 0.5y =noise being added to the output.

A balanced cable would deliver "hot" 3x + 0.5y and "cold" -3x +0.5y. The receiver flips the cold resulting in 3x+0.5y +3x -0.5y =6x + 0y. This can then be divided by 2 resulting in the correct 3x and no noise.

[-] jackpot@lemmy.ml 2 points 11 months ago

the guitar input is unbalanced?

[-] bstix@feddit.dk 1 points 11 months ago

Yeah, a guitar output is a mono unbalanced two wire 1/4" TS jack.

Of course there are people who make guitars with custom wiring, but the standard is TS. 2 wires: tip and sleeve.

You can use a stereo/balanced TRS jack with 3 wires,? (Tip, Ring Sleeve) but only because those are sort of compatible with TS. It won't actually be balanced.

load more comments (3 replies)
[-] I_am_10_squirrels@beehaw.org 1 points 11 months ago

I wonder if it would be possible to use some jacks and a couple of cables to run Ethernet.

[-] bstix@feddit.dk 2 points 11 months ago

I guess so. The phoneline in my house only has two wires (middle pair of a rj11) so it could work just as well on a guitar cable. It runs at 20/2 mb, which is about maximum for this sort of line. Works alright for TV streaming and office work, but it's too slow for keeping up with the daily gigabytes of game updates.

[-] lung@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

Cuz quarter inch jackets are for mice

(and dainty jacks fall out. You can get an adapter if you really want it)

[-] ThePantser@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago
[-] DudeImMacGyver@sh.itjust.works 3 points 11 months ago
[-] XTL@sopuli.xyz 2 points 11 months ago

You find that one out quickly when something yanks the cable hard.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] chitak166@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

I think it's purely durability. Larger cords are harder to snap.

[-] neonred@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

Why not a quarter handspan or a six halver?

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] pewgar_seemsimandroid 1 points 11 months ago

it's not balanced output?

load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2023
105 points (100.0% liked)

Asklemmy

43908 readers
981 users here now

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy 🔍

If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!

  1. Open-ended question
  2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
  3. Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
  4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
  5. An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS