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submitted 10 months ago by return2ozma@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world
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[-] jordanlund@lemmy.world 217 points 10 months ago

Homeopathic everything should be removed from the market.

James Randi was amazing on the topic for people who don't understand the problem:

https://youtu.be/c0Z7KeNCi7g

[-] osarusan@kbin.social 88 points 10 months ago

It utterly boggles the mind that it's legal to sell homeopathic products. The word scam comes to mind, but it's so much worse than that because it's a scam that doesn't merely do nothing; it actually causes harm by confusing people and causing general distrust of actual treatments.

Labeling doesn't help either. Apparently the FTC understands the general public is dumb enough that we need "don't drink this" labels on bleach, but they credit them with being able to see through the confusing mumbo-jumbo that homeopathic products put on their labels to disguise the fact that it's just water.

[-] jordanlund@lemmy.world 43 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

In fairness... have you seen Fabuloso bottles? :)

[-] RickyRigatoni@lemmy.ml 12 points 10 months ago

yummie joose :3

[-] EmpathicVagrant@lemmy.world 11 points 10 months ago

That was the first product that made me want to post in the forbidden snacks community back in the dark years

[-] capt_wolf@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Mmmm! Jungle juice and Covid cure all in one!

[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

Sweet Jesus that looks good. I want to use it as a cleanser after eating tide pods.

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[-] MechanicalJester@lemm.ee 6 points 10 months ago

Some things labeled as homeopathic do work... because they have real stuff in them that does work...and perhaps does have side effects known and unknown not to mention interactions.

I used the original formula Snore Stop which was originally marked as homeopathic snore help, and it worked. It also was slowly slowing down my tongue and making talking trickier. The FDA decided it had actual levels of plant extract that was lightly paralytic. The newer formula didn't work as well for me plus I worried about cumulative consequences.

Isn't the rule that if it's really homeopathic then it won't do anything and if it really does it's a medicine?

[-] deranger@lemmy.world 17 points 10 months ago

If what you had was effective, it wasn’t homeopathic. Homeopathy requires very large amounts of dilution, to the point there aren’t even two molecules of the active ingredient present in a dose.

[-] webadict@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago

Not quite. Homeopathy is a medical belief structure consisting of certain practices that attempt to cure "like with like". It has shown no benefits over placebos or other medical treatments, and on certain occasions, has been shown to have serious consequences.

There are many parts to homeopathy that are widely criticized, such as "potentisation", a process of diluting a substance to such a degree that there contains little or none of the beginning ingredient. Additionally, since the goal is to treat symptoms by using like symptoms, the causes are never truly addressed, especially since the underlying philosophy of homeopathy is that the body can cure itself.

Thus, if you were helped by a homeopathic medicine, it was more than statistically likely a placebo effect. Please do not rely on homeopathy for medicine.

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[-] barsoap@lemm.ee 10 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

because they have real stuff in them that does work

No. Don't confuse homeopathy with herbal remedies. Homeopathic preparations are diluted, must be diluted to be homeopathic, to a degree where you don't have an atom left of "active" ingredient in the mix, insert some gross unscientific explanation about the "memory of water". That then is either taken directly, or sprinkled on sugar.

The effects of homeopathic preparations, any of them, is not distinguishable from placebo. If you look at them under a spectrograph they are exactly placebo: Water or sugar.


Herbal remedies, though? It's a hit and miss, some have been tested to not have an effect or not really the assumed one, a metric fuckton do have effects exactly as traditional use tells us (random examples: Valerian for nervous excitation, elderberry for colds), others very much do have effects but are not used because they're too dangerous (e.g. fern against tapeworms: Fern contains a neurotoxin and getting the dose wrong is easy, and easily fatal, nowadays we have synthetic stuff that's toxic to tapeworms but harmless for humans).


There's one single thing that's proven to be clinically effective about homeopathic treatment (compared to standard practice): The way doctors talk to patients, not just hearing reports about a particular symptom and then digging down into that, but taking stock of pretty much their whole life situation, it's a very broad interview. Because, yes, many people are indeed better helped by someone being visibly interested in their well-being than swallowing clinically active pharmaceuticals against their stomach bug which is actually a symptom of stress or such.

There'd be nothing whatsoever wrong with introducing that in standard care, it'll probably even save tons of money in the long run, as well as prescribing placebo -- the patient knowing that it's placebo doesn't mean that placebo effects don't get triggered, there's still a very good chance of an effect happening, the bodymind is funny like that. If in doubt, flank with hypnotherapy you'll have a regime that's not just more effective at triggering placebo effects than homeopathy, but is also ethical.

[-] wervenyt@lemm.ee 6 points 10 months ago

God, all these people ignoring "labeled as homeopathic"...

Because yeah, there are "homeopathic" remedies on the market that actually contain significant quantities of their ingredients, they're just using the word for marketing. Most of them do nothing, or are just a slightly higher dose of what you'd get from sleepytime tea. A very well-known muscle relaxant in that niche says it contains something like the equivalent of half an ounce each of valerian root, lemon balm, etc once you break down the obfuscation.

Homeopathy is total bunk, but it seems like there is no shortage of companies happy to defraud the believers, going so far as to actually give them what they think they're buying.

[-] clay_pidgin@sh.itjust.works 6 points 10 months ago

Isn't the rule that if it's really homeopathic then it won't do anything and if it really does it's a medicine?

Not quite. I don't know anything about the labeling on the particular product you used, but homeopathy is a magical process and not a chemical one. It relies on the theories that "like cures like" and that "water has a memory". A homeopathic remedy for a cold might use black pepper since it makes you sneeze, and then a tiny bit is added to water, and then that water is shaken to make it magical and diluted 50%. The shaking and diluting is allegedly performed tens or hundreds of times, because in homeopathy the LESS "active" ingredient there is, the stronger it is.

You're correct that an herbal or other traditional remedy becomes medicine once it's proven. However homeopathy has been conclusively disproven, and in fact never proven to work better than placebo (because that's all it is - there's intentionally nothing actually in it)

[-] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 35 points 10 months ago

If homeopathy had a different name it wouldn't be nearly as popular. People see it and they think "Oh, it's a home remedy because it says HOMEopathic."

There's plenty of home remedies that are at least marginally effective against colds: Hot water with honey, ginger, and lemon, for example. But homeopathy is not that. It's diluting something over and over again until there's nothing left of the original substance, and then selling it to gullible and/or desperate people like it's going to work.

[-] jordanlund@lemmy.world 28 points 10 months ago

Yup, and people see the "ingredients" listed as 6x, 8x, 10x and don't realize that's how many times it's been diluted.

[-] kellyaster@kbin.social 18 points 10 months ago

It's diluting something over and over again until there's nothing left of the original substance, and then selling it to gullible and/or desperate people like it's going to work.

It's crazy, like, a child can see right through that, yet you have millions of desperate adults falling for and hawking that obvious bullshit everywhere. It's really sad.

[-] oce@jlai.lu 16 points 10 months ago

It's desperately popular in France (Boiron is French) and home doesn't sound the same at all.

[-] RickyRigatoni@lemmy.ml 85 points 10 months ago

The fact that you can get around seemingly every FDA reg by just putting "this product not endorsed by the FDA" in tiny text in a corner of the packaging makes me wonder why we even have the FDA. If the laws were serious they'd make it so that you can not sell anything for human consumption that isn't approved.

[-] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 41 points 10 months ago

I grew up with some of this stuff. We went through a raw milk phase, putting "This product not for human consumption" in big letters on the label it's not the obstacle you think it is, if anything it's more enticing to a certain type of person.

[-] GONADS125@lemmy.world 25 points 10 months ago

The kind of person who overdoses on bovine/equus de-wormer?

[-] HessiaNerd@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago

That is not true. You can make vague claims and have a disclaimer, think "promotes gut health" but you can't claim you cure cancer. The FDA will come after you.

[-] You999@sh.itjust.works 7 points 10 months ago

That is incorrect, if you read up on the history of "patent drugs" (cure-alls) and the creation of the FDA you'll understand that there's an extremely fine line faux "medication" has to follow or risk being pulled from the market. For example you have to list the ingredients and you can't make claims that your product will cure illness, you can however make vauge claims of health improvements.

The world of quack medicine has vastly improved since the FDA's creation as most patent drugs of the time were some mix of opium, cocaine, and alcohol being sold as other made up miracle substances.

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[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 71 points 10 months ago

Change the words 'eye drop' to 'product' and it would be a far better thing for the FDA to say.

[-] MaxVoltage@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

Bro they make belladona eye drops that will get you high for 4 days straight the FDA works for the cartels exclusively bro

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 46 points 10 months ago

Putting belladonna in your eyes sounds like an extremely bad idea.

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[-] SeaJ@lemm.ee 16 points 10 months ago

If you are feeling anything from those drops, their process is not diluting it properly and there is a good chance of getting poisoned. Homeopathic shit is supposed to be diluted so much that there is almost no chance of it having any belladonna molecules in it at all. So if there is (which you indicate there are), then their dilution process is fucked and there is a good possibility that it is going to give you brain damage at the very least.

[-] Tedrow@lemmy.world 40 points 10 months ago

I work in a lab that often tests these types of things. I can tell you with certainty: STAY THE FUCK AWAY! DO NOT USE!

[-] Wogi@lemmy.world 30 points 10 months ago

Bro can't just drop a warning like that and not explain further

[-] Tedrow@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

The people in charge of testing for contamination have no idea what they are doing. I have a limited view of this, but from what I've seen they don't know what they need to test for. They don't have proper procedures in place of they get a positive test. Lastly they don't seem to have proper monitoring of their facilities to begin with.

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[-] detalferous@lemm.ee 5 points 10 months ago

Because they are empty or because they are full of contaminants?

[-] Tedrow@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago

It's both because homeopathic remedies are pretty much useless and the people that make them have no business being anywhere near things people put in their bodies.

[-] Arin@kbin.social 15 points 10 months ago

I read it wrong,

Every homophobic eye drop should be pulled off the market

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[-] yesman@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Its easy to call out homeopathic medicine as frauds stealing from fools. Same with chiropractors and anti-vaxers. But what we need to acknowledge that the adversarial, inaccessible, rapacious, and Kafkaesque medical systems in Western countries, especially America alienate people and drive them toward this crap.

Mistrust of pharma, hospitals, doctors, and the health department is not irrational.

[-] StrawberryPigtails@lemmy.sdf.org 9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Much as I like Arstechnica, this was one of the worse articles I've read there in a while. It's based off of this bullitin.

The author seems to have taken this:

Do not use ophthalmic products that:

  • Are marketed as OTC products to treat serious eye conditions such as glaucoma, cataracts, retinopathy or macular degeneration. There > are no OTC treatments for these conditions.
  • Are labeled as homeopathic, as these products should not be marketed.

And then the author seemed to imply that ALL eye drops are homeopathic and should be pulled, which is not quite what the FDA was saying.

edit: I hit post before I had finished typing when I had intended to hit preview to check my markdown. edit: And then I missed the typos anyhow. Screw it. Send it.

[-] brbposting@sh.itjust.works 6 points 10 months ago

Are you sure? Neither title nor article appear to suggest such a thing.

After referencing previous scary eye drop news:

No one should ever use any homeopathic ophthalmic products, and every single such product should be pulled off the market.
The point is unexpected, given that none of the high-profile infections and recalls this year involved homeopathic products.

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this post was submitted on 13 Dec 2023
518 points (100.0% liked)

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