Worse. All games used to let you create your own servers to play with friends. That's basically gone.
Not just that. People wonder why online games are so toxic, overly competitive and filled with cheaters. Matchmaking is the reason.
You don't have to be nice because chances are you're never going to play with those people again. All other matchmade players are just glorified bots, they're completely dehumanized. That means shitheads can act like shitheads without any repercussions. Compare that to community servers where the admin will ban you if you're an asshole. You even end up making friends because the same people will visit the same server.
And what's your purpose for playing when everyone you're playing with are glorified bots? Well your focus turns on you which in turn means your main metric of fun becomes your own skill. Since you can directly measure your own skill you look a things like wins/losses and kdr. You start to focus on things that correlate to competitive play and if the matchmaking is skill-based the game actually pushes you into sweats as the goal is to get you to a statistical 50% winrate. Now compare that to community servers where you're not pushed into sweats, the overall skill of players stays largely the same and because you'll be playing with people you know there no need to focus on being the best you can be, you can just mess around with others.
And of course cheating is a huge issue, but again it's one of those things where having an admin to vet sus players make a huge difference. The admin isn't infallible but cheating is less of an issue if you're playing with people you know.
But people would much rather give it all up and deal with toxicity, sweats and cheating because the server admin could be a badmin. But maybe I'm just old and am remembering the good old days when you could make friends playing on the same server.
Jesus. I hadn’t thought about it.
I never make friends in games these days. I just drone around and quit when I get tired of it. I don’t even like multiplayer anymore. This is why.
Back in Counter-Strike/CS: Source days I made a ton of real friends. I knew what was going on in their lives. I congratulated them when they got married and had kids.
My clan server was always full of regulars just laughing and telling jokes and making changes to the server to see what worked for us. We had it perfect. Vote for knife fights, fun sounds like “gotchya bitch” for a knife kill. We built it together and we all stumbled into the server by accident and it just fit who were so we stayed. We had a rotation of maps that we all agreed on.
They’re still on my friends list. Last online 11 years ago, 7 years ago, 13 years ago, 12 years ago.
Damn, looking at that hurt a little bit.
It’s sad just how fast time goes. I have no idea where they are now or what they’re doing. That sucks.
The last time I talked to the one dude he had overdosed on heroin and was trying to get his life together. He might not even be alive anymore.
For nearly 5 years I hung out with those dudes every night.
I meet people now that I could see myself being friends with, but there’s no incentive to talk to them again. Random lobby, play game, the end.
I was hoping GO (now 2) would have an active user base in the servers. Nope. No gungame, no endless custom maps, no fun sounds, just base shit.
As sad as it was, I’m glad you made me think about this tonight.
Spot on!
Sometimes even cheaters could be dealt with without an admin in those days. Servers would have fun game settings and odd maps that would break cheating gameplay.
My brother and I often played CS in the same room, on opposing teams because we didn't like being cheated and didn't want to be cheaters. We found an empty server with a sniping-only map. Made for great fun and someone joined in about 15 minutes later. They seemed really good, so we joined together to see if we could make it challenging. The new guy was just too good, so we decided to swap back and forth with the new guy to see if one of us could make a 1v2 miracle happen. That's when we figured out he was impossibly aim hacking. Bummer, our fun game was toasted.
Then we realized the map settings had friendly fire on and a 5 second start delay. Aim hacks don't target your own teammates. A perfect trap was available: we'd headshot TK the cheater at game start and then 1v1 each other. The cheater tried swapping to the other team only to find my brother using the same TK tactic. Our cheating friend found himself without a chance to grift. Needless to say, he didn't hang around for long.
I miss the days of opening Steam and being able to search a million servers to find the specific niche type of game I wanted in CS. Warcraft, custom maps, zombie... So fun
I don't doubt this this is generally the case, but most of the games I enjoy playing with friends offer their own servers. Which got me thinking about it, and they tend to be indie games.
So it's not gone. Niche, perhaps.
Are we really going to convince ourselves now that Sony wouldn't have introduced a subscription at some point? Realistically the only reason Microsoft where the ones to popularise it is because Sony didn't get there first
Meanwhile Nintendo was just waiting in the corner so they didn't have to be the first to try and start charging for their incredibly shitty p2p serverless online service while changing literally nothing
We can at least be relatively sure Nintendo wouldn't have been first because they were so fucking terrified of online consoles that they almost had to be dragged kicking and screaming into it at all
Just don't buy that expensive crap. If people where better at math they would buy PCs instead and we wouldn't have any exclusives.
I'm finding it hard to believe that you can get PS5-tier graphics and performance from a $450 PC...do you have a build you can recommend?
You get cheaper games, no subscription for online play, mods, replaceable parts, and an actual computer that can do literally anything you program it to though. Also a PS5 is at the very least $550 where I live
A PC being able to do literally anything doesn't factor in at all imo. Most people buying consoles don't want it to do anything but play games
Psst... The ps5 has a monthly/annual cost you're conveniently forgetting about, while unfortunately proving right the OC you replied to
to add on to what you said: At least 80$ per year currently for PS+ essentials(online only basically). if you calculate that out 5 years (i'm gonna give the ps5 the benefit of the doubt here and assume you want to upgrade after that time) thats another 400$ on top of the 450$ you paid for the console. i could build a very well kitted out PC that blows the PS5 out of the water for 850$ and it would last longer and have an upgrade path that could extend its life an additional couple years. this doesn't even factor in the overall cost savings of games being generally less expensive on PC.
My PC was about $800 altogether when I built it back a month before the COVID lockdowns. It uses a 1660 Super which doesn't support DLSS or ray tracing; every game that's on both PC and PS5 looks exactly the same. Even with ray tracing on the PS5 and I am literally comparing them side by side on identical displays.
I'm guessing a PS5-tier PC is about 800-900 and the PlayStation subscription is $80/year so you'd break even at 5 years or so.
I have a more powerful PC and I haven't owned any consoles since the Wii. I just wanted to see if you could build a comparable one for $450 nowadays
You have to factor in the cost of the online subscription over the life of the console when pricing out a comparable PC. That is what he meant by “better at math”.
Online gaming requires servers to run, and servers require money. Either the game is more expensive, the online is a subscription, or you have to run the server yourself. There are games that do each of these.
Edit: or microtransactions. Fuck microtransactions.
Normalizing needless online servers is part of the issue here (only with AAA titles). These companies set up servers and say shit like "well it has to be paid for somehow!"
Games like Diablo 4 where you need internet to play single player. Diablo 2 resurrection removed all the LAN/Self hosting features of original D2.
Blizzard isn't the only company doing this either.
Fuck that noise.
That said, with the prices being where they are, a single subscriber basically funds the entire cost of running the server.
Not exactly. Electricity aside, servers also require maintenance. That requires server admins. Those don't come cheap.
Edit: also network costs. With the requirement of handling high user numbers at stupidly low latency levels, they'll need a seperate internet connection from corp and the data service will also not be cheap.
Then solve the problem the same way the PC industry did by allowing anyone to host the server.
I thought WoW, RuneScape and the like pioneered online subscriptions?
Funny, I remember the playstation's online being dog shit and offline a ton.
This is why I exclusively play indie offline games. Also because my PC is getting old lol.
I haven't played multiplayer since the PS3 days, before Sony joined the greed bleed
Is the steam deck a console?
For the purposes of this conversation I would say yes
Then again I would count the steam deck more as a console than a PC in most scenarios
I don’t think folks remember how truly shitty Nintendo‘s online service was when it was free. The fact is these companies will not put meaningful resources into them unless they are directly generating revenue. I hate it, but that’s reality.
...It's improved? Doesn't it still handle communication weirdly (needing a separate app for voice chat), or is that on a game-by-game basis?
I sleep like shit, but at least I'm happy with my PC.
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