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His win is a direct result of the Supreme Court's decision in a pivotal LGBTQ+ rights case.

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[-] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 153 points 1 year ago

As one of the LGBT, I’m fine with this. I want the ability to refuse work to the Religious and Republicans—and I have done so for decades. The difference is, I don’t tell them why. I just say I’m busy. Because even though I want them to burn in a fiery hell, I’m not an asshole.

[-] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 71 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

While religion is a protected class, political orientation is not protected. It is perfectly legal (and moral) to ask someone if they are conservative before agreeing to do work for them.

You can even cite a policy to really drive it home: "I do not conduct business with racists, bigots, misogynists, homophobes, xenophobes, fascists or any other type of conservatives."

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[-] ExLisper@linux.community 28 points 1 year ago

Cool but where do you draw the line? If a taxi driver refuses to drive you is it still fine? What if a teacher refuses to teach your children? Or if a doctor refuses to treat you?

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[-] devz0r@kbin.social 120 points 1 year ago

I disagree with him, and I think he's bigoted. But I don't think anyone has the right to his labor and that he should be legally forced to photograph things that he doesn't want to photograph. And it's not like photography is a business that anyone can corner the market of in a small town or anything like that, all you need is a camera. It's the most common side hustle I see people try.

[-] darq@kbin.social 76 points 1 year ago

And how do you differentiate between this and say, a shop, or a doctor? Do LGBT people not "have the right to the labour" of those services?

I disagree with that framing entirely. But I'm curious to know how you would differentiate.

[-] hydrospanner@lemmy.world 41 points 1 year ago

I'd say it's the business model.

Not defending the practices or arguing in defense of bigotry, just offering an explanation.

If it's a business model like a store where you come in and buy things with prices on them, that's open to everyone equally.

If it's a business where you sit down individually with each client and work out custom goods and services and pricing, then it's less "owner sells things" and more "clients contract owner for XYZ", and at that point, I'd tend to agree that it's a two way street, that both parties must agree to terms.

At that point, both sides have the option to simply not agree and not enter into a contract, for any reason. Just because one may disagree with one party's decision to not enter that agreement doesn't mean they shouldn't have that option.

What if it was a photographer who didn't want to be hired to photograph a Trump rally, a pro-life protest, or something else they felt strongly against like a (peaceful, lawful) far right event?

I don't think in those cases that a photographer should have no choice because the organizers are paying the money, so likewise, in this case, I don't feel like it's fair to force the photographer to cover an event they have a strong moral objection to, simply because that's their business.

Again, I'm not arguing that I agree with the photographer or that their position isn't bigoted, just offering a distinction.

[-] HenchmanNumber3@lemm.ee 31 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'm not saying I disagree with your position, but being a Trump supporter or anti-choice is a choice, whereas being LGBTQ isn't, so the comparison isn't of equal demographic descriptors.

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[-] gastationsushi@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago

Whether you see it or not, your opinion is carving out a way for legal bigotry when done by a christian. Of course an atheist refusing to serve this asshole bigot would open up the door for a religious discrimination case against the atheist because bigots want nothing more than to divide society. We have no obligation to defend a bigot's rights they are actively taking those same rights away from others.

[-] MumboJumbo@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago

To say that anyone can be a photographer belittles the skill associated with a professional photographer. That's akin to saying that you can hire anyone with a voice to be a singer. Sure, you can, but there's a qualitative difference.

That aside, would there be any sign that the photographer could put on their door that would be illegal? No Blacks, No Jews, No Women, etc… If not, play that to the logical extreme; What if all photographers in town had the same sign? What services are appropriate to deny in entirety to a specific class of people.

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[-] DoucheBagMcSwag@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This potentially opened the floodgates for discrimination. Unless this is specifically only for for “hired” or “contract” If not…. Coming soon to stores in the south near you

“NO F****TS ALLOWED”

“TRA***ES NOT WELCOME”

[-] Neato@kbin.social 19 points 1 year ago

No. He gets to choose who to work for. He doesn't get to choose not to work for entire classes of people when those classes are protected.

It's the same as if he said he didn't want black clients.

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[-] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

I don't think he has the right to make his business known publicly if it isn't available to the public-- all of it.

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[-] Mandy@sh.itjust.works 66 points 1 year ago

Why are headlines about American Christians always the exact opposite of what the Bible wants them to be?

What happened to love thy neighbour and shit

[-] TwoBeeSan@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

Selective religion to suit their needs. Oldest trick in the literal book.

Jesus was white BTW

/s in case it wasn't abundantly clear

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[-] Sanyanov@lemmy.world 56 points 1 year ago

Nobody seems to be asking the main question: why would LGBT+ couples want to hire an open homophobe to take their wedding pictures to begin with?

[-] Jimmyeatsausage@lemmy.world 49 points 1 year ago

I feel like framing the issue like this kinda dangerous. If a single entity (in this case, a business) is allowed to discriminate against a protected class, then are all businesses that provide that service allowed to discriminate against said class?

It seems as though they would be. That gets us back to a version of the Jim Crow South pretty quickly. How are LGBTQ+ folks supposed to exist as equal members in a society if entire segments of that society are legally allowed to close themselves off? What happens when a business that controls major segments of more important service sectors makes a similar decision (for example, say the only Level 1 trauma center in a city is in a privately-owned, religiously-affiliated medical center that now has a legal precedent to say they won't serve LGBTQ+ patients for religious reasons)?

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[-] ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 33 points 1 year ago

Same reason black people wanted to eat at the whites only lunch counters.

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[-] Iapar@feddit.de 40 points 1 year ago

Does this in return mean that LGBTQ+ couples win the right to discriminate against christian photographers?

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[-] njm1314@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago

Even more than the outright bigotry, what concerns me most is this growing trend of conservative ideology that allows for lawsuits without cause. You shouldn't be able to sue unless you are harmed. That's the way its supposed to work. Yet these conservative courts have been turning that concept entirely on its head lately.

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[-] Okokimup@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago

No one should be forced to participate in something they disagree with. Whenever I'm trying to figure out if denial of service is reasonable, I imagine it with nazis. For example wedding cakes. If a gay couple goes to a bakery for a wedding cake, they should absolutely be able to purchase a standard wedding cake, and it's none of the baker's business what they use it for. But the baker should not be forced to decorate in a specifically gay way (like a topper with a pair of men). If a gross couple wants to have a nazi wedding, they should absolutely be able to purchase a standard wedding cake, and it's none of the baker's business what they use it for. But the baker should not be forced to pipe a swastika on it.

If it's reasonable for a photographer to feel uncomfortable working a nazi wedding, it's reasonable for one to feel uncomfortable working a gay wedding.

Obviously there's an enormous difference between being gay and being a nazi. I'm not equating those things. I'm equating the feeling of repulsion and discomfort of the one providing the service.

[-] elbarto777@lemmy.world 47 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You're also equating the cause of the feeling of repulsion.

You're repulsed by Nazis because Nazis are evil.

Why are you repulsed by gay people? Hate. Yes, even if disguised behind "religious reasons."

Regardless, I'm not saying that we must force the photographer to "work while being repulsed" (and I wouldn't want anyone on my wedding day that I know is repulsed by it anyway, but I digress.) I'm saying that we must continue peeling off that core of a hateful onion that is religion and bigotry until nothing is left.

And having said that: don't want to deal with "the gays"? Don't start a business in a place where gay people are protected. I'd say this ruling is in the wrong.

Also, I believe the photographer should be able to reject a job due to its type of content. Hear me out. Gay wedding? Yes. Gay wedding with a dildo theme? Nah. Straight wedding? Yes. Straight wedding with a cat killing theme? Nah.

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[-] Neon@lemmy.world 36 points 1 year ago

i am kind of torn on this.

on the one hand I think it's important that you can refuse to work with people you don't like for whatever reason.

On the other hand, this is an absolutely childish and stupid reason to not work with someone.

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[-] lorez@lemm.ee 31 points 1 year ago

More work for the intelligent ones that don't discriminate.

[-] Lemjukes@lemm.ee 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

How is his policy/service any different from a whites only lunch counter?

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[-] LazaroFilm@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago

Sigh. US politics really wants me to become an anarchist.

[-] frickineh@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago

Having looked at his photos, I'm gonna say this is no big loss for the LGBTQ+ community. They're marginally better than the stuff advertised on Nextdoor, but man really went all in on the vignettes, and he doesn't seem to have any eye for detail.

But also, fuck the Supreme Court for allowing this nonsense.

[-] ElBarto@sh.itjust.works 22 points 1 year ago

Waiting for the first Christian couple to be denied the photographers services, to lose their shit about it! It happened when that bakerdid it and it will happen here.

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[-] raynethackery@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

There was an article on Slate a few years ago that I wish I could find again. It was a fictional story about what it was like for a lesbian, with a kid and a wife, going through a day in which businesses were allowed to refuse her service. It's a slippery slope, guys.

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[-] Adramis 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Show me someone saying "This is fine", and I'll show you someone who has the privilege to not fear whether they're going to be blocked out of society for the crime of...existing. This is only the first step to "All businesses, including businesses required for life, can discriminate against LGBTQ+ individuals". Y'all are unhinged.

Obligatory:

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[-] stella@lemm.ee 17 points 1 year ago

Holy charged headline batman!

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this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2023
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