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[-] BertramDitore@lemmy.world 119 points 1 year ago

There have been some pretty extensive studies that indicate that when you give poor people money, they become less poor. When you give poor people enough money to live on, they stop being poor. It’s a radical concept, but it’s also the truth.

[-] unfreeradical@lemmy.world 48 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I read a study arguing that each time someone utters the letters U, B, and I, currency devalues itself by one thousand fold, chunks of the sky rain down on metropolitan centers, and everyone instantly becomes fat, lazy, and uninterested in any activities except playing video games.

[-] T00l_shed@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

Yup I died because you said it, so thanks for that.

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[-] jlou@mastodon.social 18 points 1 year ago

Yeah UBI would solve this. This might be a criticism of contemporary capitalism, but it isn't a critique of capitalism more broadly because in principle, capitalism can have a UBI.

More fruitful anti-capitalist critiques emphasize workplace authoritarianism, the employer's appropriation of the whole product of a firm, monopoly power associated with private ownership especially of land and natural resources, and inability to effectively allocate resources towards public goods

[-] unfreeradical@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago

A strike can last much longer if workers are not worried about their bread and roof.

Even without organization, a secure worker can bargain harder for higher wages and better conditions.

[-] kevinbacon@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

Aaaaand there it is, the reason they fight so hard to keep you from that security.

Nonviolence won't solve this.

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[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

Even a UBI specifically for food- food stamps for all- would make a massive change and improve millions of lives.

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[-] uriel238 111 points 1 year ago

This is why the US government runs the mail service, since it guarantees delivery to every address, no matter how remote, even if at a loss.

This is why education should stay a government service, so that schools exist for every student, even when a given class is too small.

And this is why medicine will always need a socialized element, since rare diseases are not profitable enough to treat.

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[-] LesserAbe@lemmy.world 69 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This reminds me of a quote from the Grapes of Wrath, (which is set during the great depression):

The works of the roots of the vines, of the trees, must be destroyed to keep up the price, and this is the saddest, bitterest thing of all. Carloads of oranges dumped on the ground. The people came for miles to take the fruit, but this could not be. How would they buy oranges at twenty cents a dozen if they could drive out and pick them up? And men with hoses squirt kerosene on the oranges, and they are angry at the crime, angry at the people who have come to take the fruit. A million people hungry, needing the fruit- and kerosene sprayed over the golden mountains. And the smell of rot fills the country. Burn coffee for fuel in the ships. Burn corn to keep warm, it makes a hot fire. Dump potatoes in the rivers and place guards along the banks to keep the hungry people from fishing them out. Slaughter the pigs and bury them, and let the putrescence drip down into the earth.

There is a crime here that goes beyond denunciation. There is a sorrow here that weeping cannot symbolize. There is a failure here that topples all our success. The fertile earth, the straight tree rows, the sturdy trunks, and the ripe fruit. And children dying of pellagra must die because a profit cannot be taken from an orange. And coroners must fill in the certificate- died of malnutrition- because the food must rot, must be forced to rot. The people come with nets to fish for potatoes in the river, and the guards hold them back; they come in rattling cars to get the dumped oranges, but the kerosene is sprayed. And they stand still and watch the potatoes float by, listen to the screaming pigs being killed in a ditch and covered with quick-lime, watch the mountains of oranges slop down to a putrefying ooze; and in the eyes of the people there is the failure; and in the eyes of the hungry there is a growing wrath. In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage.

[-] Nepenthe@kbin.social 32 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I've never gotten around to reading that book. Never knew enough about it to be interested. At the same time as I was eating on $50 of food stamps per month, I was the person who had to take out all the expired meat and stale bread and unsold, entire cakes down to the dumpster.

Had I taken anything and been seen, I would have been fired. A coworker was fired, for handing it out to the homeless shelter across the street instead. I've never forgotten that.

I'm going to read that book, I think.

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[-] Dick_Justice@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago

Just watched a thing yesterday about milk companies dumping tanker after tanker of perfectly good milk, because they don't want the prices to drop.

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[-] Katana314@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

Economists laugh when people believe they're moving away from the evils of money by not using "Dollar Bills".

You read a novel about a post-apocalyptic society where the government is giving out food vouchers just to try to maintain order, and people instantly start using the food voucher slips as currency.

Power dynamics, including the power of the person who farms the land, the person who trucks the food to a storehouse, the person who invests time and thought to design and builds the processing factory, can be expressed any number of ways. You just pick your poison about how you express that power.

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[-] pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

Socialism has consistently failed to do that too because it can't handle outside influence from foreign powers. Let's just freely distribute technology and let people farm for themselves again doing that. Highly organized societies are nothing but slave mills.

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[-] Clbull@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

I did and I got a 14 day suspension from League of Legends.

[-] MenKlash@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Under capitalism, food isn't produced to feed people, it's produced to make a profit.

The only way to make a profit under capitalism is to satisfy the needs of your consumers, regardless if you want or not.

When it's not profitable to feed people, we let them starve.

Hunger is literally an innate need. It will not be profitable if other external factors arise, just as regulations, licences, government-granted privileges that squash other competitors... any violation of the right to self-ownership and private property is detrimental and coercive.

Even when our labor has conquered scarcity, capitalism must manufacture it in order to justify its existence.

Scarcity is not something you can "conquer". Resources are scarce and all have alternative uses. Any time we consume any good, it comes as an expense to someone.

"The unplanned order of markets is the greatest achievement of mankind. It enables us to prosper. It is the foundation of civilization. It has no real alternative, and emerges spontaneously, so it costs us nothing. Fear and loathing of this self-imposed and unintended gift threatens our well-being, even our very lives."

[-] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago

Do you have a point or are you just nitpicking?

[-] unfreeradical@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

I think the point is that capitalism may be wonderfully humane, as long as it is confined within a mental box, and never touched by daylight.

[-] Flambo@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The only way to make a profit under capitalism is to satisfy the needs of your consumers, regardless if you want or not.

This isn't true. This isn't close to true, not even a little. Rent seeking, manufacturing wants/needs, extortion, the list goes on and on, but...

It will not be profitable if other external factors arise, just as regulations, licences, government-granted privileges that squash other competitors

...Yep. You've defined capitalism so that all these inevitable features of a capitalist economy are "external factors". What a stroke of genius. But much like the extraction and consumption of fossil fuels, the myriad ills that inevitably accompany it are "external" only because capitalists have named them so.

Scarcity is not something you can “conquer”.

It's not something capitalism can conquer, because any solution that would end scarcity for a good or service would thereby end profitability for the same. No capitalist would provide it; they'd sooner let their capital collect dust than be used without profit. Or in the case of the Great Depression, they'd sooner set fresh produce and livestock on fire than let other consume it without profit to themselves.

The unplanned order of markets [...] emerges spontaneously, so it costs us nothing.

Markets cost us nothing because they emerge spontaneously? Things that emerge spontaneously cost us nothing? I'll leave it to the reader to poke holes in this obvious nonsense. I'll merely point out that capitalists have proven themselves masters at turning a profit from things that "emerge spontaneously", costing everyone a great deal in the process.

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[-] Buffalox@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

The only way to make a profit under capitalism is to satisfy the needs of your consumers,

I think this may be the most stupid thing I've read today, and I've already read three headlines about Trump!
I guess capitalism would never dream of creating monopolies and artificial shortages to increase profit? And it wouldn't dream of trying to trick customers to pay more for less?

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[-] weeeeum@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Funny how communist countries have the worst track record of famines killing millions.

[-] queue 18 points 1 year ago

Meanwhile the billions starving under capitalism because it's cheaper to let people starve than ship food, even a few miles to a food bank:

[-] Gabu@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

Are you braindead? Millions are starving under capitalism right now.

[-] unfreeradical@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Learn about the Irish Potato Famine, the numerous famines under the British Raj in India. Count the millions who died under them, and try to resolve for your own understanding how they were caused by countries you are characterizing as communist.

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[-] Hegar@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago

Was there a watchmen parody in king of the hill that I missed? Or did someone just make this?

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this post was submitted on 05 Nov 2023
1334 points (100.0% liked)

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