Just so you guys know, Mexico did away with DST last year. It's been great not changing the clock twice a year.
Come on US... Stop dragging your feet.
But dragging their feet is the only thing our government is good at now. What would they have left?
I know some think permanent standard time is best. But I respectfully disagree, for several reasons.
First, the argument for standard time is that we need the light in the morning to wake up. And, sure, that would be great. But with standard time, most people are already getting up in the dark. Sunrise only moves to 7am or later around here. A lot of people are already up earlier to get kids on buses (my bus went at 6:45) and to work starting between 7 and 8.
Meanwhile, look at what happens to evening light. Sunsets will go from 6 to 5, and many will travel home in the dark, or simply have no light when the get home, with hours to go before sleep.
The fact is, winter just doesn’t have enough light to go around. So we have to pick our poison. I’d rather get home with some light.
Second, no one considers what would happen in the summer. Here, sunrise would come at 5 am, too early and disruptive to sleep. If light would wake us up better in the winter, than it would wake us up too soon in the summer.
Third, people say we tried it in the 70s and everyone hated it. But when it happened, we didn’t just stay on daylight savings, we switched in the fall, and then back in January, an abrupt change in the darkest time of the year rather than the gradual change it should have been since fall.
And even then, many people lived it. There were people that didn’t, sure, but it is wrong to say it was universally hated.
But make we just need to compromise. Move the clocks 30 minutes and be done with it.
But make we just need to compromise. Move the clocks 30 minutes and be done with it.
I was with you until this. But that's because I'm a programmer and time stuff is hard enough before you start using minutes instead of hours.
I think putting the sun's zenith at 1pm would be better year round. Even with that my kids still wake up before dawn starting in October, and I'd rather have daylight when I'm awake.
I’m sure it’s already figured out. India is already 30 minutes off the rest of the world.
But I was mostly joking. Because I want the madness to end.
But I totally agree. 1 pm is mush more the meridian of most people’s day how we typically actually live.
I'd rather have light in the evening but I honestly just want to get rid of the changing.
I hate standard time, but I’d still rather stop changing even with it.
On permanent dst sunrise in Boise would be at 9:20 during the first half of January.
It'd be like 9:50am here in the Netherlands and I still support permanent DST. The daytime is basically our employer's time anyway, I'd rather not waste any more precious daylight on that part of the day. It really sucks getting off work and it's already dark outside. Hard not to crash when it's pitch black out by 5:30 pm.
The daytime is basically our employer's time anyway, I'd rather not waste any more precious daylight on that part of the day.
I feel like this strikes at the heart of the whole DST vs. ST argument. As I mentioned in a sibling thread, it boils down to how much control we have over our own schedules. Instead of a mutualistic relationship, we've sold our souls to our employers. Shifting to permanent DST may be a temporary solution, but if we can't figure out a way to form healthy relationships and boundaries with work/school/etc, even those gains will eventually get optimized away from us.
And sunrise would be 5am in June. And you ignore that sunset would be 6:20pm instead of 5:20.
The fact is, Boise gets just 9 hours of daylight. Pick your poison. I’d rather the light when I might be able to enjoy it.
I don't care what the offset is. it's just fucking numbers. if I'm getting up at something called four versus something called six it doesn't make a difference to me. I just don't want the numbers to CHANGE twice a year
I'm with you. Either that or make the day it changes a universal holiday. One or the other.
Read an interesting article that said insurance companies lose tons of money because of time changes. Animals supposedly get used to traffic being low/high at certain times of day (based on the sun cause they don't have watches). So when the time changes, they keep their same routine and end up causing more accidents while crossing roads they are used to being empty.
The week after we move clocks forward in the spring, thereby "losing an hour", there is a marked increase in car collisions and heart attacks.
It's kinda absurd if you think about it. We're here arguing about Standard Time vs Daylight Saving Time while people are literally dying every year due to losing sleep every spring. I wish more states would just bypass Congress and revert back to Standard Time.
Standard time is superior for the simple reason that the sun is highest in the sky at noon.
UTC is superior. Everywhere sets their local schedule by what they need to like if the sun actually matters to them, and it gets rid of confusion. The real issue is that people have some idea that work should start at 8am or whatever in all areas. Or that 5 o’clock should be happy hour. That’s not helpful in any meaningful way.
Exactly, people need to get over the fixation on the number the clock shows.
The only way it makes sense to do this is at the federal level so the whole country changes at once. Doing it at the state level is stupid, confusing and frankly just a waste of time. This country has very real and serious problems it needs to deal with, and daylight savings time is not one of them.
States can only move to permanent Standard time without congressional approval, and when you consider that congress couldn't agree who their own leader was for 22 days, there's no hope getting them to agree on something like DST.
The real question, if states are serious about getting rid of the change to DST, why didn't they just pick standard time? No approval is needed to switch to full standard time.
Because people prefer the extra daylight in the evening which is why everyone wants DST hours.
Because people prefer the [lack of] daylight in the [morning] which is why everyone [hates] DST hours.
Is that actually what you meant?
I really wish people would stop spinning DST as if it gives us any more daylight than Standard time. It's literally just rotating a circular instrument by 30 degrees and whitewashing it with a nice-sounding name.
In not sure why you're snarkily editing my words to write literally the exact same concept I wrote originally. Nobody said DST gives more sunlight throughout the day. I said people prefer more sunlight in the evening.
All earth time is arbitrarily assigned so noon could be labeled as 2am but it wouldn't change the fact that people want it to be light out later in the evenings.
True, but driving home from work in the dark is much more dispiriting than going to work in the dark. So if your work doesn't let you come in earlier and leave earlier in the winter (clock-wise) the change to standard time makes things worse.
Red herring to appear like they are doing something for the people. As was pointed out below, we tried year round DST in the 70s and people hated it so much we went back to switching our clocks. It seems that year round standard time would make the best compromise, but that would be doing something, rather than just appearing to do things.
People arguing for our against really need to give their latitude. I'd imagine the further north you go, the more you are in favor of permanent dst.
I'm at 56°N. DST does exactly fuck all but mess with my sleep. I'd rather just stay at one time all fuckin year. In winter it doesn't make a fuckin lick of difference if the sun rises at 8 or 9 or 10, it's dark when I leave the house, and it's dark well before I get back in.
I used to live at 49°N and that was actually worse.
The opposite. For northern latitudes, the time switch is actually somewhat beneficial. People generally don't love waking up and going to work/school/whatever in the pitch black. DST doesn't magically "save daylight." The total amount is daylight is the same for either.
The only real solution is permanent Standard Time. Local businesses and governments already shift their business hours as they see fit for other reasons, so keeping "summer hours" and "winter hours" is totally reasonable.
I don't mind dark mornings, since I'm already at work by 7am each day. But not being able to walk/bike in a park safely each afternoon, not being able to cook outside, or hang out with friends in the daylight is a bit sad. And also SAD as in the disorder since we are now inside during the only hours of daylight...
This right here is the reason I call for permanent DST.
I'm at latitude 42N and having less daylight time in the evenings during the warm months would be awful.
While we might not love going to work in pitch black, we don’t care to have all our evening in it, either. As you say, the total amount of daylight is the same, so we have to pick our poison. I’d rather have more light in the evening. I will hate the 5pm darkness that comes tomorrow.
Morning our schedules is no better than moving out clocks.
We're kind of having the same argument in two different threads ... I'm not sure which thread is better.
Morning our schedules is no better than moving out clocks.
It's objectively better! "Moving clocks" is effectively the same as moving schedules for individuals, but to practically coordinate with others, everybody must change their clock and therefore their schedule. Individuals and organizations already construct their schedules as needed.
Part of the issue is that we all work too damn much, anyways. The 40 hour, 5 day work week (and thus the 9-to-5) is an arbitrary concept that research has indicated may be just as effective as a shorter work week.
41N.
And yes, this is true. But why should we be denied just because those closer to the tropics don’t have a problem? Or perhaps time zones should be rather diagonal so the the north can get later sunsets.
And those wanting standard time should also give their latitude. And rather or not someone is on the east or west end of the time zone makes a huge difference. Those further east in the time zone sees earlier sunrises and sunsets and are also more apt for daylight savings. For instance, much of New England would probably be better off in the Atlantic time zone. As it is under DST, the sun rises before 5am in Portland, ME, and EST would put sunrise before 4am! Sadly, being in the same time as certain business centers like New York and Boston (Maine wants to be the same time as Boston, and Boston the same as NYC) have made many bad time zone boundaries.
Simple. Just keep one. I prefer daylight saving.
On permanent dst sunrise in Boise would be at 9:20 during the first half of January.
Except hasn't it been well-proved that standard time is a better stopping state?
That would suck. They went the wrong way round.
I’d rather have sunshine left when I get off work than have some first thing in the morning.
We already tried permanent dst in the 70s and people hated it so much they switched back to changing the clocks. Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
As I said above, it was implemented incredibly stupidly. They didn’t just stay on daylight savings, allowing the sunrise and sunset to gradually change. Instead they changed in the fall to standard time and the AGAIN at the beginning of January back to daylight savings. They abruptly changed at the darkest time of the year.
Even then, it’s an exaggeration to say people hated it. Many hated it, but some others loved it. It’s also a different world. More people start at 7 or 8 rather than 9. And no doubt some people hated the horrible way they initially implemented it.
Hahaha. Almost everyone but Indiana, which used to have permanent standard time until Mitch Daniels got elected and he'd always had a bug up his ass about adopting DST. And now Indiana is like, "we ain't goin' back to not moving our clocks around!"
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