What is the Linux equivalent of a MacBook Air? Unless its literally MacBook Air and the virtualization just hasn't come far enough (lemmy.world)

submitted 10 months ago by cheese_greater@lemmy.world to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

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[-] MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 36 points 10 months ago

I don't understand what you're asking. A mac is hardware, linux is software. There are no "equivalents" between the two.

Why do you mention virtualization? A VM is by no means the only way to run linux on macs, on x86 machines it should install just fine, and Asahi has come a long way towards fully working on ARM.

If you're asking for apple-like hardware that can run linux, just go with apple hardware.

Or are you asking for laptops that come with linux? I don't get what you're actually after here.

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago

apple like hardware

Yeah, thats fine if Asahi totally substitutes or can substitute for MacOS. I need a lot of work on this topic because I've never ventured outside like CrossOver or whatever the thing that lets you run Windows on Mac. Is Asahi like that but on steroids basically?

[-] MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 11 points 10 months ago

No. CrossOver only runs windows programs inside OSx, not windows itself. It's basically "just" Wine. BootCamp would be an actual dual-boot utility which made actually installing Windows onto x86 macs a bit easier. As far as I know, there's been no great success with installing Windows on M series macs. But it works just fine on x86 based apple computers.

Asahi is the linux project which is doing work to implement support for all the mac-specific hardware features that apple arm silicon has. Such as the GPU, fingerprint sensor, touch pad, etc.

Linux already works on arm in general, it's the core of android, after all. But apple keeps the way all their stuff works together for themselves. So using apple hardware, especially the new M series SOCs, with something other than their intended operating system, has to be figured out from scratch. That's what Asahi is doing, and they are very far along now.

I'm not sure you understand how operating systems work. They are not part of the hardware, they are only software, as long you have something else that also works on that hardware, you can completely delete what came with it, and put in whatever else you want. With x86 macs you can literally turn them into windows computers, it's not windows running inside OSx, just windows.

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

only runs...in OS

Ah k, this was my understanding of running an alternative OS. Like I thought no matter what you run, Apple was still keeping supervisory control regardless. But I was thinking of this more in-line with what Cross-Over/bootcamp/wine etc do roughly speaking.

[-] MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

You can run another operating system inside OSx, but that's a virtual machine, an entire virtual computer which you then install the other OS on.

You can also just install an OS an the actual computer. There is no way to make doing this completely impossible, and with professional hardware used by actual software professionals, trying to would be utterly unacceptable. Apple would lose an entire type of customer.

Even with game consoles, people like to circumvent the blocks around doing this and run whatever they want, for fun.

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[-] B0rax@feddit.de 2 points 10 months ago

Careful, bootcamp is running the is on bare metal. This is what you are asking for. The others are different and run ON macOS.

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[-] carzian@lemmy.ml 16 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

In terms of slim netbooks that are Linux first?

Starbook from Star Labs

Framework 13 from Framework

Slimbook from Slimbook

[-] salarua@sopuli.xyz 16 points 10 months ago

if you're looking for a nice ultraportable, System76 has you covered

[-] los_chill@programming.dev 3 points 10 months ago

Been using a Sysem76 (Gazelle, not ultraportable) laptop for a year now and love it. Running Pop_OS and performance is on-par with my partner's M2 MacBook Air.

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

With linux or what's it running OS-wise?

[-] Suspicious@lemmy.wtf 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

System76 is a company that sells computers with a Linux OS pre-installed and made of hardware optimized to work especially with Linux(Linux will work on pretty much any hardware including apples). "Linux" in this context is a loosely defined colloquial term which refers to a large group of OS's (the OS's are also called Linux distributions/distros) which all use the same kernal component (this is the most important part of an OS) which is officially called the Linux Kernel. The actual OS's can vary massively from one another POP_OS! is one of these Linux OS's. You will have to pick a specific Linux distribution, which you can use to completly replace the current OS on any computer, including a MacBook, no virtual machine needed

[-] coffeebiscuit@lemmy.world 11 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

https://9to5mac.com/2023/02/21/m1-mac-linux/

https://asahilinux.org/

Actually not what you asked.

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

Isn't it tho? Altho, are you in turn suggesting MacBook is the best Linux computer with all the problems of Mac but just in a Hypervisor where they have even more control and would theoretically be more unhinged?

[-] MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 6 points 10 months ago

What hypervisor? You can entirely replace macOS with linux and run it directly.

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

But surely its never totally—not running, somehow, no? Like are you saying Apple is totes cool being cucked by Asahi/linux alternate OSes while they do all the work on developing the hardware?

I really hope I totally misunderstand the way it actually is now and that you can gently set me on the right path on this topic

[-] MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 7 points 10 months ago

You already paid for the hardware, it is yours. If apple sold it to you for a loss and expects you to give them more money through their ecosystem, that's their mistake.

Software is not part of the hardware, it can always be replaced. It can be made difficult, but as the console jailbreaking community will show you, never impossible.

There are people who have installed linux and run steam games on playstation 4 hardware, even.

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago

Im glad my understanding was flawed and all of you could helpfully correct that :) thanks internet pal

[-] overlordror@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

You delete macOS. You install Asahi. No Apple involved except they made the hardware, just like PCs. I have mint on an ASUS Zenbook. It's your hardware, use it how you want. Apple can suck a fat dick.

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Can you have both? I might want to use certain paid apps that might be less replaceable or other "Apple" stuff but wanna have the option to experiment with Linux too since I've never used it previously

Edit: I've heard the term dual-boot, that's ringing a bell perhaps

[-] MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 3 points 10 months ago

Yes. You can have more than one storage device, or partition a single one, and install more than one operating system. At startup, a bootloader like grub can then be used to choose which one you want to load into.

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

Is it a seperate Volume or what's the metaphor or file level at which this is possible?

[-] MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 2 points 10 months ago

Yes. You cannot have multiple operating systems within the same filesystem.

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

But on a practical level, does this preclude being able to dual-boot? That's the word I feel like I've heard and that best conceptually aligns with what I'm envisioning here

[-] MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I order to dual-boot, you must install more than one operating system, plus a bootloader that lets you switch between them.

The multiple OSes cannot be installed within the same filesystem, which simply means they need to have their own area on the hard-drive/ssd/whatever.

For linux you need extX/btrfs/..., windows uses ntfs, and OSx uses apfs. They do not work with each other (or, well, linux can mostly access the file systems of other OSs but it can't run from them).

In practice, this just means you either need more than one storage device, one for each OS, or that you need to partition your existing one. (Shrinking any filesystem already on it, and creating new partitions for the other OSes).

Essentially, imagine taking your 500gig mac, and shrinking it to a 300gig mac, and then using the extra 200 gigs to create a second, virtual ssd that you can then install your second OS onto while keeping the one you already have (though with a bit less space for it to use).

The "new" ssd is not really virtual, it'd be a partition of the size 200gigs, the filesystem that was already there was also a partition, it was just the same size as the ssd, so it took it up completely. When you only have one OS, you only have one partition (there are exceptions) but you can have two, or three, or any number you want. They can be any size as long as they together fit on the drive.

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[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

You can just put linux on whatever computer you want. You want it on a MacBook? Do it. You want it on a custom built gaming rig? Do it. You want it on your grandpa’s beige monstrosity? You’ll need a light af distro, but you can do it.

Linux isn’t going to be built around or optimized for any specific hardware, because that’s not what it’s for or how the folks who make it operate. That means that if you want the best linux laptop, go find the best laptop you can afford, and load it with the distro you’re interested in. You don’t buy linux like macOS.

If you want a computer built by a linux distro developer, use a system76 computer with popOS

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[-] dfyx@lemmy.helios42.de 11 points 10 months ago

I would say Framework 13. Maybe a bit thicker but it captures the Linux spirit of having something you can customize.

[-] bananaw@sh.itjust.works 9 points 10 months ago

I have a Thinkpad x1 nano that I threw Linux on. Not sure if it counts since it came with Windows installed, but Thinkpads have historically done well with Linux support.

It's tiny, super light, can't upgrade any parts, has minimal ports and I love it

[-] Flumsy@feddit.de 8 points 10 months ago

Depending on where you live, but companies producing laptops exclusively for Linux are eg. Tuxedo, System76, Slimbook.

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

But which is the Apple among[st] those companies in terms of creating the closest experiential and physical analogue so to speak?

Edit: some folks are saying you can run Linux on M1 Macs to such a complete extent that I almost can just stick with that but I feel like I'd like my cake and eat it too by being able to like dual-boot and use whatever situationally.

[-] flubba86@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

The Dell XPS Developer Edition, aka Project Sputnik.

[-] lemann@lemmy.one 4 points 10 months ago

I bought a mid 2012 Macbook Pro specifically for Linux, take from that what you will 🫣

Louis Rossmann having 1000s of videos on repairing these also made the decision a no brainer.

[-] lntl@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Pinebook Pro is the answer. If you don't agree, reconsider the question.

[-] RickyRigatoni@lemmy.ml 5 points 10 months ago

Listen I love Pine and what they're doing but their hardware is equivalent to a V-Tech children's toy compared to literally anything else. No adult who wants to have an actual daily driver should ever consider Pine unless Pine do some major upgrades.

[-] jose1324@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

Bro my old phone is faster than a Pinebook Pro

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

K here's an example to help illustrate what I'm looking for: pretend I'm a MacBook and this is a dumb fantasy like Thomas the Tank or whatever. Say I want to romance a Linux copy of me? What laptop as a fellow laptop do I want to "Migrate" or upload with?

Edit: I have no viruses to speak of or at all

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[-] saccharomyces@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

Just yesterday I got a dell inspiron for this reason. It’s the “we have a laptop at home” macbook air IMO and I only logged into the OEM windows for the 5 min of checking out what’s new windows 11 before installing my OS of choice.

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

Not looking for a fight 🎰

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[-] CJOtheReal@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 10 months ago

A phone with Linux installed...

[-] Synthead@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

A phone replaces a laptop?

[-] CJOtheReal@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 10 months ago

Just connect a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard and you got a laptop.

The phone probably has more power than a MacBook Air anyway.

[-] Synthead@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

Why do you suppose most people don't substitute phones as laptops?

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this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2023

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