4

Written by: Tom MacRae

Directed by: Graeme Harper

top 9 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] SiliconAvatar@startrek.website 2 points 2 hours ago

Going off on a tangent here, this double episode set the parallel universe signifiers for another show, Fringe, that stated airing a couple of years later. The Zeppelins in particular, but also the in-ear headsets (although without the Cyber-implications) and the need to carry identification.

The later development, from "Doomsday", that crossing over impacts the stability of the parallel universe, also comes into play in Fringe. The Zeppelin escape scene from the episode discussed here is copped almost verbatim in season 4 of the latter show — with Cybermen substituted by zombies.

There is also a time travelling character whose apperances are telegraphed pretty much the same way that Clive (RIP) presents the Doctor in "Rose". It would be shameless, if the creators and writers of Fringe weren't gleefully and openly borrowing from pretty much every scifi-adjacent show out there.

X-files and Twin Peaks are directly referenced more than once, and there are obvious callbacks to Cronenberg's The fly, as well as The Manchurian candidate, Firestarter, Altered states, and more.

Tangent over, the scheduled discussion will continue as planned.

[-] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 1 points 21 minutes ago

I remember starting Fringe when it debuted, but it didn't grab my attention and I dropped it pretty quickly. I know its reputation is quite good - I should give it another go sometime.

[-] SpaceScotsman@startrek.website 2 points 5 hours ago

This follow-up is decent. A cliffhanger in usual fashion resolved almost instantly using some well-set up doctor ex machina. Plenty of action scenes balanced by a tense walk through the underground tunnel. Throughout the conversion factory there's references to Nazis - emotionless processing, people walking in unawares, rejection of impure stock, the incinerators. The scene of the lone cyberman being euthanised after its emotion chip gets broken is pretty harrowing. But this is undermined later on when they're running around with their heads exploding when all the chips go down at once.

Why is lumic in a wheelchair throne, he's got a metal body? Thankfully by the end he's standing up and a bit more menacing, but even then he's easily defeated in what must be the 3rd "tense quick climb up a ladder while being chased" of the episode. The most terrifying cyberman was converted jackie, and the subsequent scene of them looking back and being unable to tell which is which is quite sad.

The scene of jake reacting to Rickey's death seemed a bit off for me, I couldn't figure out why, it seemed dramatic and over the top. I read up on the wiki later and realised they were meant to be in a gay relationship. This completely changes the dynamic and the scene, and I wish had been stated explicitly.

At the end we're back to doctor and Rose, alone together. Ending with a return trip to see Mum is good. I imagine happening all the time off-screen, given all the trauma everyone usually gets, so seeing it is nice. Ending on a random shooting star twinkle in the alternate universe is weird and makes no sense, but it got a chuckle out of me.

Other minor things I noticed:

  • A news anchor says London is "now under martial law". It already was, we saw military checkpoints in the last episode.
  • At one point lumic "declares independence" - this dialogue makes no sense
  • The Cybermen in "cold storage" in the underground tunnel is a nice callback to an earlier series episode with the 2nd doctor.
  • Lumic is the only cyberman who survives a broken emotion chip - because he was already a psychopath.
  • I really like the teardrop design of the eyes,and the moulding of the faces, they look much more disturbing than the old cybermen.
  • In "our universe" the cybermen originally come from a planet in the solar system close to earth's orbit. THIS is the subtle reference Pelia should have made in that recent star trek episode with an extra solar system planet.
[-] SiliconAvatar@startrek.website 2 points 1 hour ago

A news anchor says London is "now under martial law". It already was, we saw military checkpoints in the last episode.

No no, it's even more martial this episode. You have to go through multiple checkpoints to even get to a checkpoint!

Martialer Law

[-] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 2 points 2 hours ago

Why is lumic in a wheelchair throne, he’s got a metal body?

I'm not proud, but I laughed. I suppose it's supposed to be a throne, but the optics are awful.

I read up on the wiki later and realised they were meant to be in a gay relationship.

I totally forgot about that. I think Andrew Hayden-Smith sells it pretty well, and Noel Clarke absolutely doesn't.

At one point lumic “declares independence” - this dialogue makes no sense

I think he's referring to London, which I guess makes a kind of sense given the appearance of the PM in the previous episode, but yeah that line is a whole lot of nothing.

[-] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 3 points 7 hours ago

The first thing that strikes me is that the story here is held together by a lot of wild contrivances. Mickey and Jake get to the roof of Battersea undetected...somehow! Despite normally clanking around, the Cybermen can still sneak up on you when convenient! Mickey's hacking skills (granted these have been halfway established in the past) are strong enough that he can find the override code for the emotional inhibitors in a matter of seconds! Also, he knows how to fly a Zeppelin because PlayStation!

With that all the way, I think the emotional core of the episode is strong. The body horror is executed perfectly, with the "why am I cold" scene being absolutely outstanding (and something that I'd forgotten about, shame on me).

I really appreciated Pete's "rejection" of Rose, even after he learns the truth. It's unsatisfying in a very real sort of way.

I'm less fond of Mickey's departure - it's fine, I just don't care much for Mickey. I do think it would have been more resonant if Eccleston was still the Doctor, since he showed more disdain for Mickey last season.

It was nice that the episode spent some time with Jake, and especially Mrs. Moore. It's a little surprising that we never met their counterparts in the mainline universe.

Lastly...the Cybermen could be a good metaphor for toxic masculinity. Maybe it's time to revisit them.

[-] SiliconAvatar@startrek.website 2 points 1 hour ago

Yes, I also remember wanting to see more of the prime Whoniverse Mrs Moore when I'd watched this episode!

Once again, it's fun to imagine how these 20 years old broadcasts would have been received by our current, terminally online culture. "Doctor Who is canceled, man. This is the weakest season ever, RTD has lost the plot!" 🥸

[-] SpaceScotsman@startrek.website 2 points 5 hours ago

Mickey going off on his own is fitting in a way, though the constant flip-flopping of whether Rose was happy for him to be there or not made it difficult to know if this was a good or bad outcome.

this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2026
4 points (100.0% liked)

Doctor Who Social Club

423 readers
4 users here now

A community for discussing all things Doctor Who.


Rules

1 Be constructiveAll posts/comments must be thoughtful and balanced.


2 Be welcomingIt is important that everyone from newbies to longtime fans feel welcome, no matter their gender, sexual orientation, religion or race.


3 Be truthfulAll posts/comments must be factually accurate and verifiable. We are not a place for gossip, rumors, or manipulative or misleading content.


4 Be niceIf a polite way cannot be found to phrase what it is you want to say, don't say anything at all. Insulting or disparaging remarks about any human being are expressly not allowed.


5 SpoilersUtilize the spoiler system for any and all spoilers relating to the most recently-aired episode. Spoiler protection will not be granted to information that is out in the mainstream media.


6 Keep on-topicAll submissions must be directly about the DW franchise (the shows, movies, books, etc.). Off-topic discussions are welcome at c/Quarks.


7 MetaQuestions and concerns about moderator actions should be brought forward via DM.


Upcoming Episodes

Date Episode Title
12-07 TWB 1x01 "Homo Aqua"
12-07 TWB 1x02 "Plastic Apocalypse"
12-14 TWB 1x03 "The Deep"
12-14 TWB 1x04 "The Witch of the Waterfall"
12-21 TWB 1x05 "The End of the War"

Doctor Who Wiki


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS