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Spain must follow Poland's example to save Schengen: PM Tusk (tvpworld.com)
submitted 2 weeks ago by Pip@feddit.org to c/europe@feddit.org
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Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk has urged Spain to tighten border controls after tens of thousands of migrants entered the Spanish enclave of Ceuta, saying Madrid must follow Warsaw’s example “if Schengen is to survive.”

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[-] Tryenjer@lemmy.world 42 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Nothing but opportunists all across Europe (and especially in Italy). Instead of uniting against what is obviously an act of aggression by Morocco against Spain, they attack the Spanish government and exaggerate the situation with the aim of benefiting their respective parties at home (The Schengen area is not at stake, for those who don't know geography, Ceuta is in Africa, it's isolated. Heck! It isn't even part of the Schengen area in the first place).

There are many things for which it is fair to criticize Sanchez, but this is not one of them.

[-] huppakee@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

The Schengen area is not at stake, for those who don't know geography, Ceuta is in Africa, it's isolated. Heck! It isn't even part of the Schengen area in the first place

I believe the danger they see is that these people are now allowed to ask for asylum, and while waiting on that the decision are free to roam Spain. Since there are no internal border checks, they can basically travel all around the Schengen area and ask for another asylum in the next country. i'm not really sure of the exact rules, but them hanging around in Ceuta is not the danger they see.

[-] emmanuel_car@fedia.io 8 points 2 weeks ago

How are they going to get to the mainland? I kinda doubt the government will ship them across.

[-] Don_alForno@feddit.org 5 points 2 weeks ago

and while waiting on that the decision are free to roam Spain.

They are not. (Can't go to the mainland. Even then they might not be allowed to travel freely as asylum seekers.)

Since there are no internal border checks,

There sadly are nowadays, thanks to rightwing nutjobs in governments.

they can basically travel all around the Schengen area and ask for another asylum in the next country.

They could not, even if they reached the mainland (Dublin procedure).

[-] huppakee@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

Thanks for clarifying, it's important these things are clear. Sadly, i don't know what is true exactly while i do know what 'the people' think is true. Could have made it more clear myself I don't know what the actual truth is.

[-] webp@mander.xyz 4 points 2 weeks ago

Does spain not fingerprint them at the start of their application?

[-] brachiosaurus@mander.xyz 4 points 2 weeks ago

Ceuta is in Africa

what is the spanish government doing in Africa?

[-] HK65@sopuli.xyz 8 points 2 weeks ago

Administrating Spain?

[-] JensSpahnpasta@feddit.org 6 points 2 weeks ago

The spanish government is governing a part of spain that is in Africa and has been a part of Spain for 600 years.

[-] hitmyspot@aussie.zone 3 points 2 weeks ago

Same thing USA is doing in Hawaii, Guam, Alaska……

[-] Malyca@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 weeks ago

This is the real question

[-] JensSpahnpasta@feddit.org 26 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Total shitshow: Ceuta is not part of Schengen. Ceuta has a border fence. The polish fence will also not hold when 50.000 people try to storm it. And Ceuta is in Africa and there is no way that those 50.000 people will be able to cross into Spain itself. And most of them have already left Ceuta. 50.000 is also a totally managable number for the EU. So fuck this guy?

[-] ZkhqrD5o@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago

Fucking right wing propaganda. Ceuta is in Africa and has no connection with the mainland, asshole. This should prompt a united response against Morocco, this constitutes an act of aggression. These right wing cunts are always looking for an opportunity to sow discord within the Union, its purely destructive.

[-] 87Six@lemmy.zip 13 points 2 weeks ago

What the hell even happened there? Morocco relaxed borders and immigrants flooded Ceuta? As far as I read 37k out of 61k went right back shortly after that as well. Some 60 also drowned.

But what were they even fleeing from? Were they paid to do this move and took the opportunity out of desperation?

It all seems weird as hell.

[-] iturnedintoanewt@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Not only "relaxed". It gave quite a helping hand apparently.

https://x.com/TalebSahara/status/2082930831903830429

[-] 87Six@lemmy.zip 7 points 2 weeks ago

What the fuck.

All the while Trump aparently said that this is due to the extreme far left..

Bruh.

[-] iturnedintoanewt@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago

The speed at what the Italian fascist responded closing the fucking schengen border really seems...coordinated. But what do I know.

[-] birdwing 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Fascism causes problems and claims they're solving them, while capitalism causes fascism. But out of the ashes of capitalism, we shall rebuild liberated socialism and communism - by council and by the commoner!

[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 6 points 2 weeks ago

Morocco shipped trucks full of "immigrants" to the due to "special circumstances" relaxed border, soon after Israel threatened Spain with immigrant waves. Most of the "immigrants", with no luggage, walked back after.

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 5 points 2 weeks ago

Not fleeing per se, just wanting better opportunities. Some of them might be unemployed and desperate, but most likely none of them had guns to their heads if that's what you're asking.

[-] Zombie@feddit.uk 6 points 2 weeks ago

Not a literal gun perhaps, but as you said, they're desperate, so a metaphorical gun is certainly to their heads.

[-] brachiosaurus@mander.xyz 12 points 2 weeks ago

message for everyone: immigrants aren't cattle or numbers, they are people just like you

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 9 points 2 weeks ago

*To save Schengen from brown people. You forgot that part, Tusk.

[-] AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 weeks ago

The crisis has reopened one of Europe’s most politically divisive debates, more than a decade after over a million people, many fleeing the war in Syria, arrived on the continent during the 2015 migration crisis.

There are some estimates we'll see something like 1.5 billion climate refugees until 2050, but that might be overblown and globally. But still the numbers will explode for Europe until the rest of the century.

Unlike the USA, many EU countries have much higher population density. It would be hard to physically absorb such scales. And there certainly won't be a political will by the people to accommodate as many as possible. I'd love an effort to build ultra high density metropolis's for some kind of post scarcity living for millions, but that seems unlikely. And an unwillingness to address this makes the rise of fascist parties in Europe pretty much inevitable.

As long as there is prosperity and a positive outlook for the future, populations are generally quite fine with things, but that is not the case any more. We have something like 6% Muslim population (only a quarter practicing though) and millions of Ukrainian refugees in the EU. For most people this is already too much.

Ultimately climate change means genocide and we haven't really done shit. These refugees are only the first waves.

[-] plyth@feddit.org 3 points 2 weeks ago

I’d love an effort to build ultra high density metropolis’s for some kind of post scarcity living for millions, but that seems unlikely.

There will never be post scarcity. AI will take any available resources. If you want such a structure, you can start building now.

Would you try to influence culture or would you accept whatever raw market mechanisms create?

[-] AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 weeks ago

Well that is the most likely outcome, unless we get extremely lucky.

Because influencing culture requires power and we the 99% don't have any. Mostly I'm interested in understanding why and what is going to happen. I'm like a /popcornCommunist

[-] plyth@feddit.org 1 points 2 weeks ago

interested in understanding why and what is going to happen.

Once you understand you do have the power to influence.

[-] AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Uno reverse card: If you believe that, you don't understand enough yet.

You need political power, wealth (economic power) or influence (cult and followers) or military power to influence people. And then it becomes a question of power imbalance - billionaires and governments can vastly outspend our organizing efforts and have more powerful tools (= high IQ specialists) at their disposal. They developed strategies and technology to combat democratic organization over the past decades.

It's a numbers game: 10 motivated, enlightened people empowered with the power of friendship will never beat 1000 professional dumbass soldiers. That is the big liberal lie.

[-] plyth@feddit.org 1 points 2 weeks ago

The high IQ specialists understand that their money cannot shield their children and grandchildren from all the negative consequences. Some can be bought but most high IQ people are trapped with us.

[-] AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 weeks ago

Well that is also true. But we're definitely in a situation where many of the smartest and most intelligent people work for the worst causes because it pays the most and everyone has been indoctrinated to be self serving and individualist. Or they think "I need to play the game to get more power, and then I'll be able to do some good" lol.

This is also an interesting article why-some-of-the-smartest-people-can-be-so-very-stupid.

In any case the effects of the growing climate refugees is very predictable. Neoliberal "leftist" parties will push for more immigration while calling opposition fascism and there will be growth in actual fascist parties.

It seems whatever happens, the plutocrats win. US starts foreign wars, refugees increase support for right wing. Economy is being gutted for wealth transfers, more people vote right wing. Crime is on the rise because of poor socioeconomics, people vote for harsher prisons and less spending on wellfare and education. But never ever does the mainstream talk about how the influence of plutocrats actually makes it happen, because they are stupid.

[-] plyth@feddit.org 1 points 2 weeks ago

Fully agree.

But never ever does the mainstream talk about how the influence of plutocrats actually makes it happen, because they are stupid.

So, what can be done about it?

[-] AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 weeks ago

I don't know? Live your life. And help worthwhile causes around you as best you can. Every little bit helps, just don't expect that rationality will prevail. And personally prepare for lean times / economic collapse, buy solar panels, learn to grow potatoes etc.

[-] ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Poland's example? As in build a fence in the middle of forest, expel journalists and send army to illegally return asylum seekers to Belarus? The main problem I see is that people are swimming to Ceuta and putting a fence on water will be complicated. Not because it's hard but because people will die. The second problem is that it's not in a forest and you will not be able to expel the press from there so everyone will see people drowning. But don't give up Tusk, keep thinking.

[-] majster@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 weeks ago

assylum seekers

Belarus and Russia organized transport to the very border from source countries. It was clearly motivated to sow discord in Poland & EU and not for humanitarian reasons. Its not like Poles pushed back Russians/Belarussians fed up with their domestic shit.

[-] ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net 1 points 2 weeks ago

And what happened in Ceuta? Who was crossing the border and why?

[-] majster@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 weeks ago

I'm not sure I understand your question. Obviously they want to move to Spain/EU. There are speculations that Morroccan government looked the other way when there was a big influx of people to the border, but it was native Morroccans so not comparable to Poland situation where its clear that desire to migrate was instrumentalized for political purposes.

[-] ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net 1 points 2 weeks ago

In its April 8, 2026 judgment, Spain's Supreme Court upheld the practice of "hot returns" for migrants who cross Ceuta's land border by climbing or breaching its border fences.

However, the court ruled that the same immediate pushback mechanism does not apply to migrants who reach Spanish territory by sea.

According to officials, human trafficking networks quickly seized on the legal distinction.

Smugglers allegedly circulated messages on social media claiming that migrants who reached Ceuta by swimming would be protected from immediate deportation. Thousands then attempted the sea crossing, overwhelming Spain's border infrastructure and creating a legal bottleneck for authorities.

Moroccan authorities have not yet issued a statement, and it is unclear how hard they tried to prevent the crossings.

However, the crossing could be linked to the rivalry between Morocco and Algeria, and a recent trip by the Spanish prime minister, Pedro Sánchez, to Algiers.

The last mass border crossing, in May 2021, took place after Morocco loosened border controls during a diplomatic row with Spain over Spain’s decision to allow the leader of the Western Sahara independence movement, the Polisario Front, to be treated for Covid-19 in Spain.

Matteo Villa, a migration researcher at the Italian Institute for International Political Studies, said politics was most likely involved. “What happened in 2021 was the small-scale version of what happened yesterday,” he said. “I mean, 50,000 people do not come overnight when usually it’s hundreds per month. Sánchez going to Algeria is something Morocco didn’t really like.”

Villa suggested Morocco may have loosened the border as a way of showing it has “the upper hand”, especially because authorities there know it would cause an overreaction in Europe. “They love seeing all the fighting between European countries,” he added.

The people Russia and Belarus were moving to Polish border also wanted to move to EU. They were paying people smugglers to get to EU using supposedly safe route.

In both cases it's just governments using poor people to cause problems for their neighbor. How far did those people travel from is a meaningless distinction. The instrumentation is exactly the same.

[-] jenesaisquoi@feddit.org 4 points 2 weeks ago

Calm yourselves. Almost all of them have already left again.

[-] Railcar8095@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

And if they hadn't, is not like they can walk to the peninsula. They are as close to Italy as they were before

[-] SolarPunker@slrpnk.net 3 points 2 weeks ago

Respect to Spain and GigachadSanchez for this moment

this post was submitted on 31 Jul 2026
53 points (100.0% liked)

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