I feel like this is reason to continue the events not call them off. Change the tone to somber or angry but stopping things plays into their hand of inciting fear. We go to pride to show people we aren't afraid, we're willing to be visible, and that if they threaten us they have to deal with an entire community. I've never considered it to just be a fun party and I've always assumed something dangerous might happen. I'd be out there twice as hard today
No, I think it was fair to stop the events. Safety first, unfortunately.
There will be no safety if they convince us to hide again. Pride exists because people fought, bled, were arrested, and sometimes died. In my opinion, people being unwilling to be in danger over what they believe in is being taken advantage of and we need to show them we will bite if cornered
Edit to add I know not everyone is in a position to do so and I don't want to discount that. Families, people at high risk, or whatnot, I'm not saying they should all be jumping in front of a van. Maybe issuing warnings over phones or even word of mouth it'll spread quickly, and let people on the ground decide if they're still willing to take part and in what ways
💭 To consider antireligion instead of atheism
“The harm of religion is historically evident whereas the presence or absence of gods is not. Ultimately, the continued existence of religion is predicated on the indoctrination of children and suppression of rational thought. Therefore I am against religion but not necessarily against the idea of gods. For all we know gods are computer scientists and we are in their video game.” ―https://www.arscyni.cc/file/antireligion.html
[…] Not only is religion vague, it is dishonest. Homosexuality for instance. While conversing with a Muslim former colleague A, I noticed that even though the religious say they supposedly want tolerance and acceptance for all, do they actually believe it?
Q: “Do you have a problem with homosexuality?”
A: “Look. They can do whatever they want, but it's abnormal you see?”
Q: “In the strict definition of the word abnormal I agree, i.e., heterosexuality is a lot more prevalent than homosexuality, making the latter rare—“abnormal”. But I don't consider it wrong. Do you? Do you consider it a sin even though it harms no one?”
Long silence…
A: “Yes, I consider it a sin.”
Q: “Okay then.”
Christopher Hitchens was right, religion does poison everything. Even though colleague A said people are free to do whatever they please, following it up with “homosexuality is a sin” arguably exposes his feigned tolerance. […]
I am against religion and the idea of gods, as well as every other superstition.
I wish everyone would quit making shit up and focus on reality.
Not gonna defend religion or anything, but this
Even though colleague A said people are free to do whatever they please, following it up with “homosexuality is a sin” arguably exposes his feigned tolerance. […]
is a non-sequitur argument. Or at least it has an unspoken premise, of what it means for something to be a sin.
People are usually free to commit sins, and other religious people tolerate their sinning. As long as they're the socially accepted kind of sins in that religious community, like drinking alcohol, hitting your children, coveting your neighbours wife, you name it. Hypocrisy is an integral element of any religious community I know.
But the hypocrisy here is not, that homesexuality is called a sin. It is, that it is usually regarded as a graver sin than all the others that are happily tolerated.
is a non-sequitur argument.
I think I have to disagree, but I understand where you're coming from, hence the "arguably". Believing something is a sin indeed doesn't equal taking someone's freedom to do so. However, his revulsion was uttered with such conviction and certain facial expressions that it signaled if he had free rein, he would not tolerate homosexuality at all, i.e., would prohibit it.
freedom of religion is a requirement for freedom from religion.
freedom of religion is a requirement for freedom from religion.
“freedom of ~~religion~~ brainwashing is a requirement for freedom from ~~religion~~ brainwashing.”
A spurious but innocuous sounding argument.
No, it is not. Freedom to pick a bullet caliber to shoot your neighbour is not a requirement to NOT shoot your neighbours
A religious person whose religion explicitly forbids homosexuality commits violence against queer people. I too wonder at what the motivation could possibly be 🙄.
Yes, not all religious people are this way. But don't forget with things like this, it is almost always a relgious and/or far right person. The sentiment with rape of "not all men but always a man" applies here too.
If religion caused ~~violence~~ attempted murder I'm not sure why it's not way more common. Evil shit heads are always looking for an excuse.
Edit: it was super unclear what I meant so I had to change my wording so that my point could possibly be understood /s
Domestic violence is pretty common amongst religious and far right people, no?
Religious extremism doesn't sprout up in a vacuum. It is created by a lack of resources and opportunity. Resources and opportunities that have been taken from people by foreign/Western governments that refuse to let the middle east be stable. The West has collectively overthrown dozens of democratically elected governments in the region going back at least a century. If your grandparents can't ever remember a stable life and you lack the resources the learn about your circumstances, you will use the only stable pillar in your life as the basis for your revenge.
This shit happened in the EU...they have support there, stop making excuses for violent extremist. The middle east has been at war with itself way before the Soviets invaded...yea you forgot about those guys invading Afghanistan didn't you...
The middle east has been at war with itself
Before World War 1 the middle east was under the rule of the Ottoman empire. So they weren't at "war with itself". Part of the terms of the end of if ww1 was most of the region was carved up by the victorious allies. One of the things they did was install Western friendly governments. The British also forced Israel on Palestine. Then the US overthrew a democratically elected government in Iran leading to the inevitable blowback of the Islamic Revolution in 1979.
Maybe you should read some history before you make ridiculous claims.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Middle_East
You should read how the Ottomans took power...the middle east has been warring for centuries. Let's stop acting like it's western powers that have caused all this. We shouldn't be there at all, but let's stop with the "west is to blame" for all of this.
So the middle east was just as violent as Europe? Ok Cool. The middle east isn't inherently more violent than other places. To say that is incredibly racist.
People are people. They need resources to build proper lives. Lacking that, they believe they have to fight. Western governments figured out last century that in order to win the global economic war, they need oil. So they need governments friendly to them in order to secure access to those resources. Acting like this is just an ancient conflict that has no answer is ignorant.
So the middle east was just as violent as Europe? Ok Cool. The middle east isn't inherently more violent than other places. To say that is incredibly racist.
Where did I say Europe hasn't been at war with itself for centuries? Get you're Whataboutism the fuck out of here. You suggested the middle east was at war and violent because of western powers. I provided facts that, that's bullshit....and now you're pulling some Whataboutism bullshit.
People are people. They need resources to build proper lives. Lacking that, they believe they have to fight. Western governments figured out last century that in order to win the global economic war, they need oil. So they need governments friendly to them in order to secure access to those resources. Acting like this is just an ancient conflict that has no answer is ignorant.
There are multiple states in the middle east that are using said oil to be more prosperous...so you're point is bullshit again.
And please tell me how ramming a car into a pride parade is somehow fighting the good fight...
You're being tolerant of the intolerant.
Where did I say Europe hasn’t been at war with itself for centuries? Get you’re Whataboutism the fuck out of here.
It's not a whataboutism, it's a necessary comparison to make it clear that the Middle-East is inherently just as violent as any other part of the world. Though seeing as we're all predominantly from European/Western countries, the comparison to Europe is especially relevant, considering the rampant bigotry and misconceptions toward the Middle-East and the Arab peoples.
You suggested the middle east was at war and violent because of western powers. I provided facts that, that’s bullshit…
You linked to a super long Wikipedia page without even bothering to quote any relevant information. Regardless, as I and the person you're replying to mentioned, all you're really proving is that the Middle-East isn't any more violent than Europe, Asia, Africa, etc.
And besides, the original point brought up was about the modern Middle-East, not its past. As it stands now, the Middle-East wouldn't be even remotely as chaotic as it is now had the West not taken such gratuitous advantage of it. You can spin the facts any way you want, but you can't get around that.
There are multiple states in the middle east that are using said oil to be more prosperous…
And why do you think said states need oil to be prosperous? The economies of those nations aren't happening in a vacuum. Globalization has been a thing for centuries now. Western countries need the oil, and the Middle-East has the oil. Add capitalist greed into the mix — a western product — and there you have it.
And please tell me how ramming a car into a pride parade is somehow fighting the good fight…
What was that about whataboutisms again? Because you're literally doing the exact same thing here. Completely unrelated. Not only that, but nobody here ever even insinuated violence like that is a good thing. What a weird thing to fabricate.
I wouldn't say it is western powers per se. But it is the oligarchy. Be they western or not. They cause the wars, often using religion as an excuse. But first they deprived the people of the resources and opportunities which drove people to religion. That made it easier for the oligarchy to control them by giving them an organized set of things to be upset about. So religion is really just a tool.
understanding where something comes from doesn't save you from its immediate effects
just because you know someone is robbing you because they are in need doesn't mean you should give up right away
There was that attack by an Arab atheist a while back, in Germany no less. Just saying for the sake of it.
I was curious about his motivation, so I did some reading to find out.
In a video he made some time before the attack, he was very upset about someone stealing a USB stick from his mailbox. He's former muslim, anti-islam, pro-Israel, and generally right wing, though he called himself a leftist. He admires Alex Jones and Elon Musk. He tried to get close to the AfD while atheist organizations distanced themselves from him due to his extreme views. He tried to explain his motive for the vehicle attack during the trial, but was rambling, incoherent, disconnected.
He was sentenced to life in prison, which seems reasonable to me.
There’s a scene in the TV series of The Handmaid’s Tale. The enslaved women are given the choice/opportunity to tear a man apart with their bare hands. A man they never met before, though he is named a rapist. And they do just that.
I read this shit and I think of that scene. It’s not an excuse for the behavior. But the way our governments are moving, caving, deteriorating for a handful of assholes, is leaving a lot of enraged, angry, empty people with no outlet.
And then those same governments point to trans. And the rage takes what is handed to them and runs with it, vents on it, leaving the assholes and governments intact.
Dude, enough with the mental gymnastics! You're twisting reality into a pretzel just to keep your bogeyman intact. But no, the German government has not manipulated anyone into murdering queer people. Religion has manipulated its followers into hating people for who they were born as. Western governments have plenty of faults, but there are many other causes of disharmony and division in the world, and religion is a big one.
That too, but the way trans are being chased down and named as bogeymen, is a piece of this.
What utter bs. These people were killed by a crazy islamist, not the government. You have totally lost the plot if you think that queer people are "enslaved" in Germany.
Fucking pathetic! What a horrid waste of a life who was presumably a better person than the van driver.
sigh
Honestly, it’s not crazy to think anymore that this horrific thing could be a “gift” to far right. Techno-oligarchs are aware that this is the only way to manipulate who’s not on their side. Divide and conquer.
We all know how big tech manipulate reality. They don’t even hide it anymore. We know how certain someone wants to spray fentanyl laced urine with a drone over his enemies. We all seen how easy to establish cults over discord. And we know how easy to find a vulnerable person to abuse and brainwash them..
This is not good news as this will enbolden the AfD party. They will increase in popularity due the origin of the purpetrator. Especially it is an election year in certain German states.
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