1. Signal
2. XMPP
3. Matrix

In that order. I self-host both XMPP and Matrix, and I wouldn't want to stop using matrix. Spaces, arbitrary amounts of self-chats, and so on are great. I use matrix every day.

But for chatting... It sooner or later fails you. It's slow. Notifications break. Messages are shown as sent, but somehow do not appear in the recipient's devices until TWO WEEKS LATER (yeah IDK, happened twice already, in different chats and directions. Best part is, I'm not even federated!). Encryption is great IF YOU KNOW SOME CRYPTOGRAPHY BASICS, and utterly confusing otherwise.

XMPP just works. Especially the calls, holy shit, I had to fight Matrix for so long to make voice and video calls work, and xmpp just... Works. Notifications are way more reliable (as in, have been absolutely perfect). I really like monocles as a chat app on Android. (The downside is: can't decrypt old messages on new devices, and desktop clients are ugly.)

So why Signal above XMPP?

Because it's not your fault should something ever break in a vital service. Also the encryption and privacy afforded by it a great.

I managed to get my immediate family all on Signal, so that's my vote!

Make sure the app is set to "unrestricted" under battery settings. Most phones get really aggressive nuking down stuff that is not from FAANG

I'm not sure what the problem with the android version of Element X might be, it works perfectly for me and my wife. Voice and vid work fine, but that's also using the matrix.org server. YMMV with your own self-hosted server, I have one for my agents but I haven't used voice/vid with it.

And yah, I had high hopes for NC Talk, but it's not worth the trouble even if you provision a STUN/TURN server.

I'm using matrix for years with my wife and my mom, never really had issues, but maybe my requirements are not that high.

I like the idea of matrix, but I wouldn't recommend it yet. Maybe after a few more years if the ux improves.

I just think that it sounds way too hard to have a messaging app working nowadays. I mean, from a developer perspective.

I just wished PWA was better integrated with mobile OSes so notifications worked effortlessly. That way, building my own solution would be almost trivial I think.

If I went full .apk style I certainly would miss iOS(no time to waste on Apple SDK or whatever), and Google is day after day hardening the process of installing homemade .apk.

What I am aiming at is that the discussion should not be "which messaging app/service is best according to xyz criteria", and yes "why building my solution is not trivial?".(of course I appreciate the current discussion, I just want to expand it)

Grandma uses Signal, it looks like a normal texting app, nothing special

Signal or Molly are probably going to be your best bets

Android notifications are notoriously difficult to get right. May I ask how is Nextcloud Talk currently implementing notifications? Is it through ntfy, a background service, or Google's Firebase? Have you allowed background usage for both the push app and the chat app?

I use Matrix with Continuwuity and Element X, and it's doable most of the time except for small bugs. If you disable federation, the resource usage should be minimal too. But it also requires a third party for push service which can be unreliable.

On the XMPP side, there is also Snikket which you could look into. It offers both a server (running modified Prosody) and a mobile client (modified Conversations). XMPP can run as an efficient background service on Android, so it'll receive in-band notifications.

Regardless of options, one of the main problem I'm aware of is that Android variants tend to overkill various background app, leading to missed notifications. I think it's better to debug on that aspect as well

I use Signal because it's the best balance of privacy and security vs. convenience and reliability I have found. Not self-hosted, but I've yet to find a self hosted alternative that is as reliable, especially since I don't want to set up distributed servers, and it's one of those things that "just needs to work" or people will abandon it quickly.

And the older people I've convinced to use it, like my mom, have had very little trouble adopting it. It helped that RCS messaging is so unreliable on my phone since Google or my carrier keep seeming to break it (likely became I use GrapheneOS), and also for those with iPhones it is way more compatible with itself vs Apple and Google refusing to implement RCS in a way that all features work between them, like message reactions. Without RCS, my mom couldn't send me decent quality pictures of my niece all the time, and I couldn't send nice pictures of my outfits to the girl I'm dating, LOL.

Seconding the XMPP reccomendation- I run Prosody, which has been rock solid and stays up even when other services I run go down. File sharing, E2EE, reactions, voice and video calls- everything you'd expect from a modern messenger. Cheogram or Conversations are great Android clients, and Monal is the iOS client I'd recommend.

https://snikket.org/ works well with XMPP under the hood.

@anakin78z We use xmpp (prosody on the server; a mix of conversations/cheogram/dino/snikket on our phones and laptops). We've got a family chat where the kids share the latest memes, and we message back and forth. We do also have signal (or in my case, Molly) installed, but don't use it that much. My wife just switched phones and signal was unable to transfer stuff from phone phone to the other - in general I find signal annoying to use.

We use matrix for a few years but it was buggy and dumb.

xmpp. don't matrix, it causes selfhosting-phobia for normies because its ui sucks. i had a friend try matrix with me for a while and now they're never trying another foss messenger again unless its proved to be very good.

Does it have to be self-hosted? I've had tons of problems with Matrix. Many fewer issues with XMPP.

Chatmail is probably the easiest and best bet for reliability. Deltachat is the OG but I like Arcanechat, it's a fork with more features.

My family and friends all use matrix to communicate and works fine for everyone.

Just a fair warning: Element (Matrix client) also had issues with notifications not appearing in time, or attachments/images not loading. (This is on a self-hosted Synapse with a handful of people and 1 bridge).

I haven't kept up much with new developments, but last I remember, hosting the official Element Server Suite Community requires Kubernetes. Third-party servers or some install scripts are an option though.

SimpleX is pretty good if you're looking for a signal/sms replacement rather than something slack-like

Matrix works well for me.

It's not out yet, but I'd keep an eye on Flatline. It's by the people who make Molly (Signal client fork—it's pretty good, been using it for years). Flatline is a Molly-compatible server implementation, i.e. so that you can host your own Signal server. Because generally if someone asked for a "reliable messenger for family use" I'd recommend Signal as a polished and reliable option, though not self-hostable unfortunately.

Delta chat seems pretty good, you can easily self host and it's very lightweight.

I do not recommend matrix, the apps aren't great, and hosting is a lot to deal with.