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Which is your preferred messaging app? I just want some insights about these two.

You may share other messaging apps too.

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[-] undrwater@lemmy.world 2 points 1 hour ago

Only because nobody answered with this one:

IRC

Decentralized and an open protocol. Client setup to connect is not so straightforward, but it's a one and done. Very robust.

I'm allergic to centralized communication schemes, though I do use signal to communicate with one person.

I want to research some of the other suggestions that have been brought up, so thank you for the post!

[-] Mensh123@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago

Matrix is only really enjoyable with unencrypted chats.

I have fairly recently switched phones. Now, a good number of older messenges fail to decrypt. Even when I don't switch devices, a group chat for a three day long event with a very small group already gave us lots of fun decryption errors. Oh, and I have this other fun group chat where Fluffy Chat constantly reminds me that people whose devices I haven't verified will be able to read my messenges every time I send something. Also, Matrix has coutless clients with different feature sets and I heard calls are a pain to ßet up.

Signal, on the other hand, just works. Federation and decentralization is obviously nice but a functional product is more importmant. I haven't had a chance to try XMPP unfortunately.

[-] Transparent_knoll@awful.systems 1 points 33 minutes ago* (last edited 29 minutes ago)

You should be able to decrypt the messages if you still have the old device to verify the new connection, or if you saved the encryption key that's setup when you first login to the account.

Appreciate it's not as simple as logging in, because that's the point of separating the encryption key from login creds in the first place. Even if your accounts credentials are compromised, previous messages aren't, and any future messages from the unverified device are flagged as suspicious.

XMPP has some good options. I tried utilising mov.im servers, which claims to have E2EE.(using conversations app to connect) Its very user friendly and just works. Though, I'm not sure how the encryption works on there as I'd already got my users used to element, and saw no reason to move (IMO its still a better option than signal due to the self hosting capabilities, but depends on what level of solution you're after)

[-] Cognitive0780@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 hours ago
[-] sifar@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)
  • If you have a targeted group/peer need then whatever they are using or whatever you all decide right in the beginning - I'd suggest Matrix or some other decentralised alternative, definitely not Signal.
    • Matrix had the huge opportunity to be "the messaging app" but they neither became good at corporate usage and definitely ended up sucking at personal usage. They started doing too many things, at once, and while completely ignoring the individual user.
  • If you want a wider general acceptance then sadly Matrix is DoA. WhatsApp becomes a huge choice outside USA and China but it has started becoming shittier by the day and looking at who has become WhatsApp's global head now, I don't think it's gonna get any better (check his last "app" or company's screenshots and come here if you don't end up vomiting). So Signal or maybe some other similar app. You are limited by societal trends and acceptance here, not the tech or finesse or privacy of an app.
  • If you just want privacy and a simpler app, proven (at least so far), then well Signal it is, as much as I hate it for reasons they decided to make it a centralised messaging app and then stuffed crypto in it etc.
[-] lionel@lemmy.coupou.fr 6 points 8 hours ago

I prefer matrix for two main reasons:

  • I can host my own server (and I do)
  • It's not centralized

As a bonus it has briddes for almost anything you can think of, so I use the signal bridge.

[-] jaykrown@lemmy.world 2 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

I created this to help find active matrix rooms https://activematrixrooms.com/

I use both signal and matrix.

[-] jksalcedo@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 hours ago

Cool! Thanks.

[-] ignominous_wombat@lemmy.ml 15 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

I actually prefer XMPP. It's also less of a hassle to set up than Matrix and the protocol is much more mature. There are still issues, but it's rather functional for audio and video calls (if you're using a supported client).

Edit: For clients, I use Cheogram on Android and Profanity (which is a TUI) or DinoX (for calls) on Linux.

[-] Goodlucksil@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 14 hours ago

I use both. No, really.

If one's intent is to connect with as many people as possible, having as many messaging/real chat apps as possible is a good idea (imo).

That's why I have WA, DC, Stoat, Signal, Matrix and IRC.

[-] theannoyingfruit@sh.itjust.works 8 points 15 hours ago

I use matrix with a bunch of my friends to replace discord and and it is quite good. The main draw for me was the awesome client options like fluffy chat, commet, and sable.

[-] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 13 points 17 hours ago

Signal. Matrix was made by Israeli spyware company Amdocs and when an employee was asked about it after the split to a UK company they pretended like Amdocs wasn't caught in multiple global spyware scandals already.

[-] derin@lemmy.beru.co 10 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

Matrix is literally an open standard, use a server and client written by people you trust, or write your own.

Signal is literally made by a private company and is completely closed source.

[-] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 5 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

Signal is open source but it's hosted centrally. So you're trusting their server.

Matrix is a protocol it's not hosted anywhere. But the primary developer and host instance now called Element.

But it being created and initially bankrolled by an Israeli spyware company known for creating backdoors, and the lead devs still refusing to acknowledge that doesn't inspire me much more confidence.

If you want privacy SimpleX seems like better option than Matrix.

[-] derin@lemmy.beru.co 4 points 13 hours ago

You can host a server which uses software not written by Element. Same for the client.

I don't trust the Signal devs because I have no reason to. I don't want to use anyone else's servers unless I'm paying them or they're paying me 😅

And I love swapping/trying new clients.

[-] dropdrip@lemmy.ml 1 points 5 hours ago

You glossed over the fact that it came from Israel's intelligence-community. Its design is woeful--that's the protocol, regardless of client or server implementation. The project reeks of a state-backed program to get ahead of the increasing desire for encryption in everyday communications. Yet encryption has always been an after thought within that program. All those bridges to funnel different protocols into the program.

[-] jksalcedo@lemmy.ml 4 points 15 hours ago

But they say Signal is centralized, and hosted in the US.

[-] BladeFederation@piefed.social 10 points 16 hours ago

Signal is more stable & simple to set up. So for its intended use, getting people to actually talk to me on it, it's better.

Matrix is obviously better as a Discord replacement. It doesn't require a phone number which is also good. Not centrally managed so easier to decouple from big tech corruption. So it is better in those ways.

[-] jksalcedo@lemmy.ml 4 points 15 hours ago

I agree. Signal is easier to use and to get people switch to it since the UI/UX are vey similar to other big platforms.

[-] dessalines@lemmy.ml 14 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

Signal is a centralized, US-based service which requires your phone number (thus your real identity, IE name and address), has social networking graphs of everyone you talk to, and must forward that information to the US government when asked, as well as (by law) not tell you that they've been asked to do so. During the Obama era, 60 NSLs were issued for this private information every single day.

People overlook its privacy concerns for the same reason they do with apple: it has a shiny interface and is easy to use, and makes people very attached to it. Behind all that, is a surveillance network that its creators have explicitly said they do not want it to be able to run in a decentralized, private manner.

It has a long history of privacy offenses below (such as refusing to publish its server's source code for years, its reliance on other US tech services (amazon, google), US-government funding, and a US-defense-tank friendly administration) which get ignored or shouted down by many of those above. See the article below.

Why not signal.

Pretty much any alternative is better, as long as its not hosted in a five-eyes country, and especially if it doesn't require phone numbers or real identities like signal does.

I personally have been using SimpleX for friends and real life contacts, and Matrix for larger more anonymous group chats.

[-] Bazoogle@lemmy.world 7 points 18 hours ago

has social networking graphs of everyone you talk to

Source?

US government funding does not mean it's immediately bad... The internet, thr flu vaccine, closed captioning, and wheather radar were all funded by the US government. A truly secure messaging encryption is beneficial to the United States, and is evem good enough for the president apparently.

Since their messages are truly secure, it wouldn't matter where you store them. Just store them in the cheapest places possible. It being centralized makes it far more usable to the average person, making it much more likely for them to use.

[-] dessalines@lemmy.ml 2 points 17 hours ago

Read the linked doc, because it's clear you didn't.

[-] Bazoogle@lemmy.world 5 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

I read it. They also have no source or evidence.

Signals database, which we must assume is compromised due to its centralized and US domiciled nature, has a few important pieces of data;

You can't simply say "we must assume" as evidence. In fact, they implemented "Sealed sender" in 2018 where they are not able to see who the message is being sent to.

They are also legally required to provide all information they have on users for warrants and subpoenas. Any time they do that, they post the (slightly redacted) document they provided to the courts. See the list here: https://signal.org/bigbrother/ This confirms they did not have any metadata on those users. The only info they have is what they openly state (phone number, date of registration, and last time a message was sent).

While there may be other US government requests they are not alllwed to disclose, they were legally required to provide the same information to the courts, and we can see what they provided.

And sure, while the US government funds Signal, you know who else endorses it? Edward fucking Snowden. If anyone knows about secure messaging, it's the man that physically removes the microphone and camera from his phones before using them.

[-] dessalines@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

You can't simply say "we must assume" as evidence.

Okay yeah you definitely didn't read it. Large sections in that doc just before that are on phone number identifiers, NSLs, and 5-eyes countries, the US goverment pushing signal in privacy spaces... literally the reasons why signal isn't trustworthy. Unless you can tell me what an NSL is, then I'll assume you didn't read it.

While there may be other US government requests they are not alllwed to disclose, they were legally required to provide the same information to the courts, and we can see what they provided.

Did you ignore the large section on NSLs? These come with a gag order, meaning its illegal for signal to notify their users about them being spied on.

In fact, they implemented "Sealed sender" in 2018 where they are not able to see who the message is being sent to.

This is a "just trust me" from signal, since neither of us have access to their centralized DB, but you also ignored two paragraphs down, where it showed that with message timestamps and recipient information, this would be trivial to find the real sender of a message, regardless of sealed sender. Again, actually open source software can't say "just trust me" like signal can, we actually have to show code to prove it, and let people run that code in a private manner.

And sure, while the US government funds Signal, you know who else endorses it? Edward fucking Snowden. If anyone knows about secure messaging, it's the man that physically removes the microphone and camera from his phones before using them.

Elon musk and jack dorsey also endorse signal. An endorsement means nothing, especially for centralized software based in a 5-eyes country.

[-] FrugalBlue@discuss.online 2 points 17 hours ago

Good question. I looked in the attached essay source, and he covers this there https://dessalines.github.io/essays/why_not_signal.html#social-network-graphs

[-] Bazoogle@lemmy.world 5 points 15 hours ago

This is my comment to the other person, I just don't want to type the same ideas out a second time:

I read it. They also have no source or evidence.

Signals database, which we must assume is compromised due to its centralized and US domiciled nature, has a few important pieces of data;

You can't simply say "we must assume" as evidence. In fact, they implemented "Sealed sender" in 2018 where they are not able to see who the message is being sent to.

They are also legally required to provide all information they have on users for warrants and subpoenas. Any time they do that, they post the (slightly redacted) document they provided to the courts. See the list here: https://signal.org/bigbrother/ This confirms they did not have any metadata on those users. The only info they have is what they openly state (phone number, date of registration, and last time a message was sent).

While there may be other US government requests they are not alllwed to disclose, they were legally required to provide the same information to the courts, and we can see what they provided.

And sure, while the US government funds Signal, you know who else endorses it? Edward fucking Snowden. If anyone knows about secure messaging, it's the man that physically removes the microphone and camera from his phones before using them.

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[-] BaraCoded@literature.cafe 7 points 17 hours ago

I feel uneasy about Signal being an app centralized in the USA, but it is the only one streamlined enough to be usable by non tech-savvy friends and family. I wonder if it will fall prey to Chat Control in Europe, so the time to explore alternatives will soon be upon us.

So far, I have heard of XMPP, Matrix, Delta chat and SimpleX. Never got friends to switch to XMPP or Matrix for more than one conversation, so I guess we're just f*cked.

[-] jksalcedo@lemmy.ml 1 points 15 hours ago

Me neither. In fact, all my friends and almost all people here are only using Messenger and Telegram.

[-] minty@aussie.zone 11 points 20 hours ago

Signal. Requires little technical knowledge, other then knowing about end to end encryption and why its important

I would like to use matrix since if anything, I think its cool. But noone I know would be remotely interested.

Do you want it to be so complicated that no one you know in real life is able to use it for more than two weeks before they make some kind of mistake or change that deletes their entire message history and identity? Matrix

Do you want a slim chance that friends and family might use it, but you have to listen to privacy nutjobs tell you your app is a CIA NSA PsyOp and you might as well cc: potus(at)whitehouse(dot)gov all your messages, it's run by an american non-profit obviously it can't be trusted? Signal

[-] 0_o7@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 20 hours ago

Beeper which runs over Matrix (with bridges) has been pretty good and straightforward.

It's setup like a chat app rather than a slack/discord lookalike so its easier for usual folks to get used to.

[-] Kirk@startrek.website 6 points 19 hours ago

Signal is more like WhatsApp, Element/Matrix is aiming to be more like Telegram or Discord.

[-] Hund@feddit.nu 12 points 23 hours ago

I've been using XMPP the past two decades. I use it because I haven't found something that's better.

[-] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

well what are your criteria? Asking for advice without saying what you need isn't tremendously useful and, as has happened, mostly just results in people recommending whatever they personally use for whatever reasons.

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[-] Mubelotix@jlai.lu 10 points 23 hours ago

Both ! Use Matrix with tech savy friends and Signal with your family

[-] phanto@lemmy.ca 30 points 1 day ago

This is how I explained Matrix to my mom: its like an email address, but for chat. You can chat at me, even if we aren't using the same server, like someone can send an email from Gmail to Hotmail. She got set up and promptly went back to texting me every dang time.

[-] pineapplelover@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 1 day ago

That is where signal once shined before they removed the capability of being default sms app

[-] BladeFederation@piefed.social 6 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

That's why they removed it actually, people think being the default SMS app means you're actually sending encrypted messages now. Nope, it just means you're sending regular old SMS but with thr Signal app.

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[-] Tealk@rollenspiel.forum 12 points 1 day ago

I'd go with Matrix. I use it as my main messenger and I've actually set up my own self-hosted instance. It works perfectly for both 1:1 conversations and managing my tabletop RPG groups. Voice chat through Element Call is fantastic – honestly, it's a solid alternative to Discord.

What I really appreciate is the control I get from self-hosting: I have complete autonomy over the server and data for both my personal messaging and community spaces. For RPG campaigns, the room structure and customizable permission system are ideal. The voice quality is reliable enough for long gaming sessions, and everything feels more private and independent compared to relying on Discord.

[-] nitroemdash@lemmy.wtf 8 points 22 hours ago

Signal requires your phone number, which is not only quite bad for privacy, but also easy to block 2FA for your government if it decides it doesn't like private chats.

[-] RodgeGrabTheCat@sh.itjust.works 8 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

Currently using Signal. If Canada passes Bill C-22 Signal will leave so I'll have to find another messenger app.

SimpleX seems like a good one. Doesn't use Google notifications which is great for degoogled devices. Set it to check every 10 minutes instead of constantly and it's very easy on the battery. Messages come in right away if the app is open, such as when having a conversation with a contact.

Edit: SimpleX is also very easy to use, as simple as Signal. This is important to get non-tech people on-board.

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this post was submitted on 18 Jul 2026
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