I don’t think most women wanted to be pregnant back to back like that then.
My grandmother had 16 children. It destroyed her.
I'm a tenth child and my mom did it of her own volition. It was like being a dog that nobody wanted to take care of.
I'm sorry you were forced to be in that position.
My dad was number 14. He was once asked for advice by a man who had several children already and wanted more. My dad's advice?
"Stop."
My dad went on to explain that this guy was already neglecting his current children and that it was abuse to continue. Because there simply isn't enough time and resources available.
I used to work with a guy who was close to my age and had 12 children. He swore up and down that all of them got the same attention. I asked for the middle name of the fourth youngest and he couldn't answer.
I have just one kid living with me. (The other one is 26) I spend a lot of time and effort taking care of her, I don't see how I could adequately care for a double-digit number of kids.
My oldest sister wanted to do the same. My brother in law got a vasectomy in secret after the 7th. Everything your dad said is exactly true.
Edit: I don't mean to imply that some women aren't forced into the position of having more kids than they want. But usually having a lot of kids requires two mentally unwell religious fundamentalists.
Oh you're totally right that there's people who willingly do this as well! Thankfully we have more choices when it comes to how many children we want these days.
Maybe it's just cuz I've got a neurospicy bean who is AuDHD and PDA af, but I do not understand how people can have more than a couple kids. Hell, my wife is the oldest of 5 and it's crazy how much abuse I now see they all endured (both neglect and actual SA abuse of the youngest ones that wasn't brought to light until a few years ago).
Right? I've got one kid and I've got my hands full! I can't imagine having more kids than I wanted because of lack of access to contraception. Sounds like a nightmare.
My mother wanted two, got two at once, went "DONE NOW" and it was for the best.
often it's just the lack of contraception and/or appropriate education.
No, some people get a thrill out of the power of making more people, of having a huge family, even if they don't take good care of them.
I personally don't get it. But I have a friend who is a really incompetent person - when we hang out, we have to make extra sure she doesn't do dangerous things like she is a child. She is a sweet person, but very oblivious in a way that is hard to put a pin on. She is married, and her husband takes care of her and has always seemed to kind of like the responsibility. To each their own. But they now have 2 kids and he is completely overwhelmed. But she wants more and keeps talking about trying to talk him into it or 'oops' getting pregnant again in a few years. We all yell at her when she says stuff like that.
It is the perfect flip-flop of the usual gender roles - where Dad has all the responsibility and doesn't want more, and Mom just sees it as some kind of power trip about her self image and is oblivious or just doesn't care that it would break her partner.
They needed workers. Not pictured is the shallow grave out back for the 4 that got the rickets
And the "orphan train" already passed by, so it's not pictured either. Or the "for sale" signs when the children became too many. But the chimney sweep kids are "living it up", as they're learning an important trade!
But the chimney sweep kids are “living it up”, as they’re learning an important trade!
The cancers those chimney sweep kids got were horrific. Last Podcast on the Left recently did a deep dive into chimney sweeps and it was eye-opening. Highly recommend listening if you're into that kind of thing.
I was just recommending a podcast episode lol
Sorry, sorry... that was sarcasm. It was mostly slavery of orphans, guised as trade-skills. As well as the cancers, they also had hellish injury/death, because ya know... 7 year olds are climbing chimneys
"Put their feet to the fire"... sometimes kids were too afraid to keep climbing, so they lit a fire under them. Sometimes, they became too grown and got stuck in the chimney, possibly dying. Hellish
I wasn't correcting you, I just have ADHD and saw your line about chimney sweeps which reminded me of that podcast episode so I recommended it hahaha
I'm sorry I didn't make it clear that I was just conversing with you.
The food bill for those kids today would be pretty close to the median gross income in USA.
Good thing that the father has a stable job at the gas station to support his family.
Or they owned a farm, and 7 or 8 of those kids are already doing significant amounts of farm labor to earn their food. The economics of having tons of kids is radically different when they go from being a cost to a profit in 8ish years instead of from a cost to not a budget item in hopefully 22 if you're lucky.
The US school calendar was based on the realities of this. So was the election schedule, voting on a Tuesday aligns neatly with the schedules of farmers bringing goods to the nearest town for market.
I had the fortunate experience of growing up with great-grandparents living, as well as some of their siblings. I got to hear first-hand experiences from 3 generations of women (mother, grandmothers, and two great-grandmothers plus various aunts sprinkled in). It was invaluable for me. Knowing their life stories and the truth of what they endured has helped me navigate life in so many ways.
It also has been incredible armor against the flood of misplaced nostalgia and outright manipulation of history that seems so prevelant. My great-grandmother was born in 1908 and died in 2002. She left her abusive husband in the 1930s and raised her kids as a single mom in a time when it was exponentially more difficult to do so. Glad she got out when she did with 4 instead of 14...
When I hear of the women in the victorian times who worked as sex workers to get by, got hacked into pieces by Jack the Ripper and no one batted an eye when they heard a woman screaming as that's just what London was like at the time....
... I know there's a lot of unwritten history that wildly deviates from the conservative mindset, and always has.
If you teach women about their bodies and give them the choice, they will have fewer children.
This is why conservatives are anti-sex ed and anti-abortion.
True, but they also have more options for birth control. And a family needs two working parents to have a children nowadays as well.
Before modern medicine, often people would have a ton of kids because they would frequently die.
Before modern medicine, often people would have a ton of kids because they would frequently die.
Before modern medicine, birth control and abortions were much harder to come by, too.
Being fair to women back then, most of them didn't know how sex and babies worked, lacked any sort of formal education besides knowing how to read and write, and were raised that disagreeing with your husband or saying no to him in the bedroom was how to wind up an old spinster, the worst fate for any woman.
"Honey, if I knew what was causing it, I would never have had more than two."
-My great grandma, mother of 12
They legitimately didn't understand that sex resulted in pregnancy?
That seems unlikely to be true unless they were raised very religious and not in any proximity to farm animals or pets.
Not until after menopause. She was born in the rural US American south some time in the 1920s (the date is known, I just forget). She grew up during the great depression, never went to school, only knew what she learned from her mother, who lived the same way, and only socialized with other women at church, who also lived and grew up the same way. She could read and count well enough to follow a recipe and write enough to leave her husband a note, but that was about it. She was raised to believe that if she said no to her husband in the bedroom, he would divorce her, word would spread around town that she wasn't a "good woman" and she would end up an old spinster, the worst thing a woman could possibly be.
God that poor woman. That's so many kids.
Her husband forced himself on her while she was still recovering from birth. There's no way there were so many children so close without that happening.
Y'all can disagree with me, but I'm right. There's no way this particular woman could've healed from birth enough to safely get pregnant again that many times. Marital rape wasn't even against the law back then. It was normalized.
Sex would not have been enjoyable for her immediately after birth.
~~You are most likely right, but given there are trad wife's now adays, it isn't impossible that some women wanted that. And unless there are more specific information from her family on her choices, chances are, we will never know. And as much as I don't want to deny past sexual violence, I also don't want to deny agency. ~~
After writing it I realize it is a shit opinion because even the most trad wifeliest today, with more resources and healthcare do not go for so many children. And I now agree with you fully.
My ex's best friend is one of.. 11? 12? I forgot. Probably more by now. Both parents of that family are weird but as far as I can tell it's mostly the mom who wants more but... I'm not entirely sure if she actually wants more children or she just likes getting parental pay which is 18 months in this country. On 12 kids that's 18 years that she hasn't had to go to work. Don't think the woman in the picture got 18 months
That's what happens when a wife is not allowed to say no and birth control doesn't exist. Could also represent having sex only 15 times over 16 years and getting pregnant every time. My grandmother swore all my grandfather needed to do was look at her and she was pregnant yet again.
They didn't think about it they just did it.
How many of those old kids were acting as parents because the folks were too busy fucking?
The two oldest, seated in front, are tending two newborn babies. Presumably the parents are off somewhere else, fucking.
I came from a big family like that. My mother had 13 children and 11 of us survived long enough to get married and start our own families. Lost one sister to fibroids and another to gang violence.
Please stop. The planet is overcrowded as it is.
Dude. They just said two of their siblings died. How about you stop?
That’s like 2 decades of pushing out kids.
My dad is 70 and he was the youngest of 14 kids…
Grandma, you know better. Everyone was just as horny and kinky back then as they are today. You're STILL horny and kinky Grandma!
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