211
submitted 6 days ago by Beep@feddit.online to c/europe@feddit.org

cross-posted from: https://feddit.online/c/euro@feddit.online/p/1817064/germany-tightens-sick-leave-rules-medical-doctor-note-required-from-day-one-telephone-s

Germany's Chancellor Merz:

We can no longer accept the extraordinarily high levels of sick leave in our companies.

We are abolishing sick leave by telephone and introducing the requirement to submit a medical certificate from the very first day of illness.

We know this is a tough decision. But we can no longer afford this competitive disadvantage caused by prolonged absences from work.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] ijhoo@lemmy.ml 15 points 4 days ago

is this the step where Germany reduces bureaucracy? or is it coming later

[-] mabeledo@lemmy.world 119 points 6 days ago

Great. Make yourself even less likable to the working class, by serving your billionaire masters. No wonder fucking AfD is winning by doing nothing these days.

[-] MohamedMoney@feddit.org 39 points 6 days ago

What I still don’t get is that the afd benefits from this. It will be much worse for the working class when they achieve their goals.

[-] Pechente@feddit.org 36 points 6 days ago

Absolutely but for people to recognize that, they need to be at least somewhat well informed and a huge number of people are fed by targeted disinformation campaigns and will therefore not see this

load more comments (3 replies)
[-] Tryenjer@lemmy.world 14 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Germany is cooked. 💀

The CDU adopts dumb policies like that, and then the AfD comes out with cruel crap like this.

https://respublica.media/hocke-auf-dem-afd-parteitag-wir-mussen-einen-grossen-teil-der-nation-auf-die-couch-legen-und-therapieren/

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[-] reluctant_squidd@lemmy.ca 81 points 6 days ago

Don’t forget the big middle finger this gives to doctors, who most likely have too much paperwork to do now.

[-] crandlecan@mander.xyz 20 points 6 days ago

My Dutch doctor would flat-out refuse. Something about patient doctor confidelity...

[-] bob_lemon@feddit.org 27 points 6 days ago

The employer never gets to see the diagnosis and is also forbidden from directly asking the employee. That won't change in this reform either.

But the workload for doctors will skyrocket if employees with a common cold cannot simply call off from work without going to the doctor.

(Not to mention the fact that the doctor will then declare you sick for a week instead of people staying home for just 1-2 days)

[-] azimir@lemmy.ml 15 points 6 days ago

Oh yeah! If the doc says one or two days (it's a cold), but it lingers a bit, that person gets to come back to the doc on day 3. A smart doc will just write it for a week and tell you to rest up good.

load more comments (5 replies)
[-] Agent641@lemmy.world 11 points 4 days ago

Did influenza write this legislation?

[-] square@lemmy.zip 28 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

This will backfire.

Before I retired, I got put on what my employer called a "sick leave letter" which means they thought I was abusing sick leave. Which was ridiculous, I had used only about 20% of the sick leave I had earned during my career and had a huge bank of time, but they said they thought there was "a pattern" because it was often in conjunction with my weekend. This sick leave letter required a doctor's note every time, instead of only for prolonged absences.

You know what doctors don't tell you? They don't tell you to "suck it up and get back to work as soon as you can drag yourself in", which was my M.O.. You know what they do tell you? They do tell you to take at least a week off, two if you can.

As I said, I had a huge bank of time. After two times where 1-2 days became two weeks, which I gladly took and turned into vacations, I started asking if they really wanted me to go to a doctor (which involved me spending about an hour going down the road to urgent care and spending a $20 copay to get a note for two weeks) or if I could just take a day or two. They, smartly, told me not to bother, which I required in writing. The sick leave letter expired eventually and I never heard any bullshit again.

TL;DR: Doctors tell you to take more time off than most people take on their own.

[-] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 64 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

We know this is a tough decision. But we can no longer afford this competitive disadvantage caused by prolonged absences from work.

The disadvantage:

Country Average Weeks/Days per Year
Finland ~4.8 weeks (~24 days)
France ~4.1 weeks (~20.5 days)
Portugal ~4.0 weeks (~20 days)
Germany ~3.9 weeks (~19-20 days)
Belgium ~3.9 weeks (~19.5 days)
[-] matlag@sh.itjust.works 32 points 6 days ago

Neo-liberalism: as long as you're not aligned with the lowest pay, the longest working hours, the least time off, the least benefits, you're suffering from "competitive diadvantage", and you need to "fix it".

[-] Quantillion@mstdn.io 23 points 6 days ago

@avidamoeba @Beep
And yet their overall hourly productivity is higher than a lot of countries with longer hours & less vacation.

[-] CosmoNova@lemmy.world 20 points 6 days ago

Plus Germans have a total of 1.6 billion hours of overtime a year, half of which goes illegally unpaid.

But sure, sick days are the real problem in our society…

load more comments (10 replies)
[-] skozzii@lemmy.ca 23 points 5 days ago

Well this is a step backwards.

[-] brainwashed@feddit.org 19 points 5 days ago

Small step backwards for Germany, but a giant leap forward for contagious diseases.

[-] crandlecan@mander.xyz 2 points 3 days ago

That's the spirit!!

[-] tomiant@piefed.world 54 points 6 days ago

I hate this passionately, for so many reasons.

They talk about how socialism breeds "nanny states". How is this ultra conservative move not nannyism?

Did all of these fucking people go to school in the 1890's?

[-] jenesaisquoi@feddit.org 13 points 6 days ago

Right so the problem here is that you suffer from this left-wing thinking that there should be consistency in words, actions, rules.

While conservatism is about having an in-group who the rules protect but does not bind, and an out-group who the rules bind but do not protect. There not being equality and consistency is the point.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] CosmoNova@lemmy.world 62 points 6 days ago

It‘s just really irrational on so many levels but that‘s the current German government for you.

[-] jenesaisquoi@feddit.org 18 points 6 days ago

German voters: well, voting for the right hasn't worked - they haven't done anything for the common people. We should try voting for nazis next.

Left/Green: hi there I have many things I want to improve for the common people!

German voters: go fuck yourself.

[-] eestileib@sh.itjust.works 37 points 6 days ago

What the fuck, is Germany grade school?

Does he get to check your clothes before you go out too?

[-] BenLeMan@lemmy.world 5 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Here we see conservative politicians hard at work solving imaginary problems.

Meanwhile the planet is burning and oligarchs are siphoning off our remaining wealth, destroying the very foundations of our society. But we can't let people have nice things!

[-] belated_frog_pants@beehaw.org 9 points 4 days ago

Piece of dog shit fascist

[-] Rolive@discuss.tchncs.de 36 points 6 days ago

Crazy. In the Netherlands the employer is not even allowed to ask what disease you have. If they want to know if your sick leave is legit they have to get an independent doctor involved.

Yes it's easy to abuse the system but hear me out, what if, the employer is nice to it's employees? They'd be unlikely to abuse sick leave.

[-] CmdrUlle@feddit.org 34 points 6 days ago

The certificate doesn't say why one is sick, and the employer make not ask.

Still, requiring at first day is dumb on sooo many levels....

[-] jenesaisquoi@feddit.org 17 points 6 days ago

Same in Germany, the doctor does not say why, just that there is an inability to work due to illness. On top of that it is illegal for the employer to even ask.

load more comments (4 replies)
[-] JohnnyEnzyme@piefed.social 45 points 6 days ago

IIRC this flawed arrangement is in common with Japan, and often leads to sick notes made for days or more just to make sure the patient doesn't have to go get one sick leave note per day, meaning unexpected vacations, commonly.

So already knowing how that works, is this just performative politics by Merz?

load more comments (3 replies)
[-] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 17 points 5 days ago

If you're genuinely having an issue with a sick workforce then you build better healthcare and preventative care services.

[-] rustydrd@sh.itjust.works 26 points 6 days ago

Answering the question why Merz is the least popular chancellor in the history of the Federal Republic of Germany.

[-] B0rax@feddit.org 13 points 6 days ago

This is not the only answer to that question…

[-] iocase@lemmy.zip 31 points 6 days ago

Hey doc I have a cold. I'm also really burned out from work so it wouldn't hurt if you required me 2 weeks off paid that my employer just has to accept.

Doctors note mandate suddenly and inexplicably reverts

[-] tja@sh.itjust.works 12 points 6 days ago

No, the next step is that sick leave is not paid anymore. So that you have to work sick or else you are losing money.

load more comments (3 replies)
[-] nightm4re@feddit.org 18 points 5 days ago

In Germany, we say "Merz leck Eier".

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] spacegoat@lemmy.world 15 points 5 days ago

All of this could be solved by checking Merz’s internet history and imprisoning him

[-] fireweed@lemmy.world 10 points 5 days ago

I'm confused by this. I've never worked at a business that required (or was even interested in) a doctor's note when I was sick.

Why would I go to the doctor if I have any of the most common causes of sick days, like cold, flu, stomach upset, etc? They're not going to be able to do anything about it except take my temperature, confirm my described symptoms, and recommend fluids and rest. Meanwhile if I'm feeling too ill to go to work I'm going to feel too ill to go to the doctor, and being forced to go to the doctor instead of resting at home is only going to exacerbate the condition and potentially spread whatever I have to other patients at the doctor's office and on public transit (or do you want me behind the wheel in my condition?). Do y'all really have so much excess medical capacity that having people take up doctor time just for them to confirm "yup, sick" isn't a problem?

What happens when a company is like "this is dumb, we're not 'requiring' shit"? How is this even enforceable? Like, we all recognize this is overreach, but just from a practicality point of view how is any of this proposal feasible?

[-] varyingExpertise@feddit.org 4 points 4 days ago

Do you continue to get paid when you're sick? If no, the company is less likely to care about why they stop paying you until you show up again.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] CapuccinoCoretto@lemmy.world 20 points 6 days ago

This has never worked. This is very stupid.

[-] nialv7@lemmy.world 20 points 6 days ago

the beating will continue until

[-] crandlecan@mander.xyz 18 points 6 days ago
load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2026
211 points (100.0% liked)

Europe

11581 readers
683 users here now

News and information from Europe 🇪🇺

(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)

Rules (2024-08-30)

  1. This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
  2. No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
  3. Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
  4. No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, islamophobia, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism. We follow German law; don't question the statehood of Israel.
  5. Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
  6. If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
  7. Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in other communities.
  8. Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
  9. No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)
  10. Always provide context with posts: Don't post uncontextualized images or videos, and don't start discussions without giving some context first.

(This list may get expanded as necessary.)

Posts that link to the following sources will be removed

Unless they're the only sources, please also avoid The Sun, Daily Mail, any "thinktank" type organization, and non-Lemmy social media (incl. Substack). Don't link to Twitter directly, instead use xcancel.com. For Reddit, use old:reddit:com

(Lists may get expanded as necessary.)

Ban lengths, etc.

We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.

If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 7 or 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.

If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the admin that applied the rule (check modlog first to find who was it.)

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS