597
Imagine they would put the same effort into making their own country a decent place to live
It is a decent place to live for the rich oligarchs, and they intend to keep it that way.
It is a decent place to live for the rich oligarch
Dude, are we still talking about Russia or we switched to America?
Just because America has those in spades doesn't mean Russia has none.
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(2 replies)
With the natural resources they have, they could have been a major member of the EU providing their people a lifestyle similar to Norway. But no, after the fall of the USSR they decided to go full speed towards a dictatorship. Such a shame.
America is a wonderful place to live. It is not free to live here, but we do have freedom.
I wouldn't trade my life in the USA to move anywhere else, unless it was an offer that came with a substantial financial incentive that would pay for me to live comfortably without needing a job.
load more comments
(16 replies)
When are the countries doing something about this meddling of Russia
Probably when they also do something about US meddling... which is never.
This isn’t the place for whataboutism.
The US has done countless shitty things over the years, and more than its fair share during the Cold War, but it is not (currently) an authoritarian country that is making a broad and global propaganda and covert services push towards populist authoritarians and away from democratic norms in as many countries as possible. Russia is doing that now, and has been doing that since they got their feet back under themselves a bit in the late 90s.
Crying whataboutism is just a lame attempt to deflect attention from hypocrisy and bullshit.
I'm not doing a whataboutism, I'm just saying that when a state big enough wants to exert it's influence all over the world, it's hard to curb that.
Uh, yes it fucking iswhataboutism because this thread is about Russian political intervention against democracy worldwide whereas the US would subvert governments to prop up democracies that would benefit them
Big difference
when a state big enough wants to exert its influence all over the world, it’s hard to curb that
(Btw you used “it’s” which is “it is”, not “it’s” as in indicating ownership)
This is simply MORE whataboutism, again we’re talking about Russian disinformation campaigns eroding public trust in democratic institutions and you’re over here telling people that it’s hard to change a big countries mind???
Whataboutism or whataboutery denotes in a pejorative sense a procedure in which a critical question or argument is not answered or discussed, but retorted with a critical counter-question which expresses a counter-accusation.
Come on bud, you can do better than this
“That would benefit them”
Haiti has entered the chat.
Name a country in central and South America that the United States has not installed a dictator lol
The Cold War called and wants its foreign policy back!
The US hasn't been actively involved in subverting Latin American democracies for nearly 40 years.
You will say that's nothing to be proud of, which is true, but if we can't give credit where it's due, there's no incentive to change.
load more comments
(6 replies)
load more comments
(2 replies)
I'd rather live in the US if I were forced go choose. But the US is essentially a police state. Also, you may want to rethink what the us gov and their shadow entities actually do:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change
Lol if you think the US is a true police state, then you have no clue what an actual police state is. In a real police state, you are disappeared almost immediately for critical statements about your government. While that can and does happen in the US on occasion, try that shit in North Korea or Myanmar or China. Be thankful you are allowed to have a dissenting opinion of the government, because there are actual police states in the world that will scoop you up if there's even a hint of dissent.
load more comments
(18 replies)
Where is the place for whataboutism then? Never? When a narrative is being pushed in the media that is hypocritical, should we just accept it? People seem to think anyone critical of America is defending Russia/China or another country. I think it’s downright UN-American and negligent to never try to make the country you reside in live up to the standards it puts forth.
This isn’t the place for whataboutism.
Where is the place for whataboutism then? Never?
Well, you could start your own Lemmy post speaking specifically about the United States, instead of derailing this post talking about Russia.
load more comments
(23 replies)
The place is indeed "never". Every action should be addressed in the vacuum of its own context. Whatabousims detract from the argument at hand and prevent a Socratic exchange from narrowing its scope sufficiently enough to reach a consensus of understanding.
It's not about deflecting hypocrisy, it's about being able to have sane arguments in good faith.
Maybe have a Big Think?
Protective mechanism
Gina Schad sees the characterization of counterarguments as "whataboutism" as a lack of communicative competence, insofar as discussions are cut off by this accusation. The accusation of others of whataboutism is also used as an ideological protective mechanism that leads to "closures and echo chambers".[98] The reference to "whataboutism" is also perceived as a "discussion stopper" "to secure a certain hegemony of discourse and interpretation." Source
load more comments
(1 replies)
Yes, never is the correct answer. It's cheap, obvious and condescending as fuck as well as being a total waste of time. The correct thing to do with whataboutism is to call it out and then ignore. Like what I am doing with you right now.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Whataboutism is like false choice and straw man combined. Not only is the suggestion that one needs to choose between being critical of Russia or US, that it's either/or, but you're also then implying that the person you're replying to is making an argument in support of one of the things. That they can't possibly believe both things to be bad.
They are only talking about one BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE DISCUSSION IS ABOUT.
It's fallacious, so yes, its time is never.
load more comments
(9 replies)
load more comments
(3 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
Why would they? They welcome it with open arms.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Well this thread sure is depressing. It's full of either tankies or people from Russian troll farms. Only one person actually trying to discuss the article, everyone else seems to be "whatabout America"-ing?
It's horribly ironic that the people accusing everyone of falling for Western propaganda and pointing out the US' dark past, are completely falling for Russian propaganda and excusing their current behavior.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Yeah, only we can do that! Like we did, since the 20th century:
- Nicaragua
- Haiti
- Dominican Republic
- Russia during the Civil War
- South Korea (Which we held the election and made it so only tax payers or city elders could vote)
- Greece
- Costa Rica
- Albania
- Syria
- China Giving them drugs to make them unwilling to fight
- Egypt
- Guatemala
- Iran To which we don't know the extent as the CIA burned thousands of internal documents to prevent the public knowing about it
- Guatemala, again
- Syria, again
- Indonesia
- Iraq
- Vietnam Including the kidnapping and assassination of South Vietnam's president
- Cuba with a failed invasion with a total of 634 known assassination attempts on Casto.
- Cambodia
- The Congo
- Laos
- Dominican Republic, again
- Iraq, again To which we don't know the extent as the CIA burned thousands of internal documents to prevent the public knowing about it
- Brazil
- Indonesia, again
- Cambodia, again
- Chile
- Bolivia
- Ethiopia
- Angola
- East Timor
- Argentina
- Afghanistan
- Poland
- Chad
- Nicaragua, again
- Grenada
- Panama
- Iraq, a third time
- Haiti, again
- Iraq, a forth time
- Haiti, a third time
- Zaire
- Yugoslavia
- Afghanistan, again and ongoing for 20 years
- Iraq, for the fifth time
- Kyrgyzstan
- Palestinian
- Syria, a third time
- Libya
- Syria, a forth time
Not to mention:
That time we meddled with Ukraine's elections The general plan to stop democratic elections in Latin America
The Banana Republics Where we got so off scot free, there's a chain of stores named after it. It's like if Iraq had a chain of stores called 9/11 Appeal. The Consistent and non-stop murdering of Filipinos who wanted freedom from Spain and America
And this isn't even getting into pre-1990's with Hawaii and the mass genocide of Native Americans, or the internal fucking with elections like COINTELPRO murdering Black Panthers and MLK, and the CIA secretly using network stations and the internet to spread propaganda.
But it's good when we do it, so that makes it okay. Please don't ask use to apologize or forgive debts. We can't even keep a promise with any native american tribes, let alone foreign nations.
This is the most thorough comment I’ve seen in quite sometime. Even broke out the East Timor. Saved.
load more comments
(9 replies)
Does anyone have a link to the report? I want to be informed about this matter. A link to the report should be in the article, but it isn't. Did they refuse to share the report with the United Kingdom?
load more comments
(3 replies)
erode public faith in the integrity of democratic elections worldwide.
And I thought it was corrupt and criminal politicians running a farcical democracy that did it... When in doubt, blame russia I guess.
More than one thing can be true at once.
load more comments
(4 replies)
They spam this report like how they spam articles about it to pretend like what Russia is doing is any different from what the US does.
Remember when Russia invented election interference in 2016? Well the US was doing it before it was cool: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa
That is but one example of many dating back throughout the decades. In fact, Russia is the way it is in large part thanks to US interference. Make sure to scream "whataboutism" like a good little parrot and smash that downvote button to show how immune you are to propaganda.
Wrong, dezinformacija is an integral part of communism, Russia is using it since early ‘900. There are many interesting books about it
load more comments
(8 replies)
load more comments
(5 replies)
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2023
597 points (100.0% liked)
World News
38870 readers
1750 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS