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submitted 2 months ago by EatingOnions@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world
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[-] ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world 96 points 2 months ago

I watched a video on this recently. Really interesting, especially how the researchers figured out it was a Russian satellite in a really high orbit. All it takes is a low-power burst to overwhelm the GPS network because it runs on such low powered, sensitive signals. They theorize the Russians were testing for very brief windows to see how well it world work. They could jam these signals anywhere over the Earth. Same for other nations too.

[-] adespoton@lemmy.ca 56 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I watched the Veritasium episode on it just yesterday! The other theory is that it was actually being used for covert signals and the disruption was secondary.

[-] Devadander@lemmy.world 28 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Considering the impact of these tests, that doesn’t seem likely. You wouldn’t be sending covert messages in a way that would be so heavily scrutinized. I know it was a theory presented during the video, but that’s just journalistic integrity.

And ultimately, even if they were covert messages, now they also know they can disrupt gps

[-] Fatal@piefed.social 27 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I think the point was less about making the messages undetectable as it was about making them unjammable. In order to stop their transmission, we would have to essentially shut down GPS for the entire EU. So you might use that frequency to send critical, must-have messages.

[-] hakase@lemmy.zip 13 points 2 months ago

Especially once a second signal was noticed that was almost exactly the frequency used by the Chinese GPS system, as mentioned in the Veritasium video.

[-] Pollo_Jack@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

I thought that was the cover story. They deliberately used a channel partially in the bandwidth for some deniability. It isn't like they didn't know what bandwidth GPS used when they designed the satellite.

[-] bilb@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 months ago

If I recall correctly, the idea was that they might have used that part of the band deliberately so that it couldn't be jammed without also jamming GPS. Either way, we're just guessing.

[-] ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

Yes, that's the video I watched. Good stuff.

[-] zaphod@sopuli.xyz 9 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

All it takes is a low-power burst to overwhelm the GPS network because it runs on such low powered, sensitive signals.

The signals aren't very sensitive, quite the opposite, they're chosen because they can be very easily detected even at low powers. If you want to jam GNSS from the ground you don't need a lot of power because the satellites are so far away and their signal is so low. If you want to jam it from a satellite you need quite a lot of power, especially if you consider that the suspected satellite constellation has twice the apogee of the GPS constellation. Also you don't need a burst of power, you need sustained power to really jam GNSS, the suspected satellites only did bursts because they're suspected of just testing their system.

[-] Redjard@reddthat.com 3 points 2 months ago

GPS satellites send at like 25W of power. Naively I would think you could make that 2.5kW on a satellite without issues, probably even more.

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[-] Danarchy@lemmy.nz 69 points 2 months ago

My dad w his drawer full of old road atlases: “WHATS UP NOW MOTHERFUCKERS!!?”

[-] itsjustachairmary@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago

I actually considered getting a couple maps like that lol. Nostalgia, but also redundancy. Also it would be kind of funny to fold out one of those giant maps while everyone else just whips up google maps. We're going retro, bitches.

[-] Tiral@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

You have to get ones that used to be at rest areas and stuff that are comically large and impractical to use in a car. Much less try to fold.

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[-] 1D10@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Store the maps in a laptop case so people think you are breaking out the pc.

Also I love maps and as a kid, in the 80s I had maps of just about everywhere, I collected park maps from all the places I hiked and had geological survey maps of the state I lived in. I kept all the maps in the back of my Datsun 510 station wagon. I got lost very often when driving but I would pull over a dig through the maps till I figured out where I was. I did have one of those big roll up maps that you see in old schools, where you could pull it down and it would roll itself back up, but it from the 40s and it's Africa so there is not any real information on it but it was fun to haul it out un roll it and say " nah I don't think that's it" and let it flap around as it rolls up.

I went looking for an image of my map, and found one. https://oldnewhouse.com/products/vintage-classroom-pull-down-map-of-africa-2196?srsltid=AfmBOoqDLztG46dLMq7Eh-hPMAtz0SEnlpnpdGQUu4GIuE5qwMe7MnqT

My map doesn't look as nice because someone kept it in the back of a Datsun station wagon and used it as a joke prop.

[-] titanicx@lemmy.zip 4 points 2 months ago

I have two sets of these that I use. When one of them's for when I'm off road and off-grid and very little works. The other one so that way I can have my kids look at just general road atlases as we travel quite a bit they enjoy seeing and trying to find where we're at. They will come in handy in case of anything happening as far as connectivity and stuff like that.

[-] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

Looks up Here in the map index... D3 sees this side of the map starts at 13, flips map over, finds D and 3, looks up and slams on brakes before rear ending an even more lost pedestrian.

"You should watch where you're driving," my passenger says before their eyes return to their phone.

Honks horn, pedestrian is startled out of examining their map, gives a sheepish wave of apology and speeds off. Return to map, notice there's a big traffic jam on the intended route, turn down a side street instead, thanking map for helping.

[-] dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 47 points 2 months ago

Most people don't know how unbelievably fucked the world would be if Russia did this on a consistent basis. The entire stock market runs on GPS for nanosecond timing of trades. Shipping, trucking, trains, planes all use GPS. Sure, all of them CAN operate without GPS, but the delays would be enormous because of how efficient GPS is and how automated a lot of things are. Communications systems use GPS for timing to sync up. Farms use GPS for accurate planting and picking of vegetables.

[-] Peppycito@sh.itjust.works 23 points 2 months ago

It'd be like Y2K, but for real.

[-] assertnull@programming.dev 3 points 2 months ago

Also, many power grids are reliant on GPS to synchronize power plants to keep the power in-phase.

[-] Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The entire stock market runs on GPS for nanosecond timing of trades.

Funny you should mention this. At work we built a time delivery system on our fiber optic network (based on WhiteRabbit from CERN) with the national lab who generates our countries UTC contribution, and a stock market operator became one of our early customers.

[-] dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

Getting your timing source through fiber is definitely the best way to go, as long as you have a backup timing source OTA like GPS and other GNSS in case the fiber gets cut.

[-] AlecSadler@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 months ago

I say, do it?

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[-] echodot@feddit.uk 42 points 2 months ago

Yes we all watched that Veritasium video.

[-] SippyCup@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I've actively avoided Veritasium since the lightyear long wire video, when he made claims that were proven wrong by numerous other channels and then doubled down on them. Then he sold out to private equity and YouTube has a hard on for pushing their videos in to my feed regardless of what I was just watching. I go so far as to scramble in to the room to change it if I'm just listening to the TV from another room to avoid having YouTube add that shit to my algorithm harder

Claire Saffitz? Veritasium is next. Scary Interesting? Fern next? No Veritasium. Fern? Veritasium. Veritasium videos from years ago you've already seen, why not. That fucking light-year video again, fuck you.

That said, EVEN I have seen that video.

[-] cinoreus@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

I mean, he did say he sold out to private equity cause he wanted to retire basically. His channel is basically now his retirement investment

[-] SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 2 months ago

You do know that you can block channels, right?

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[-] Lilim_3000@lemmy.ml 24 points 2 months ago

Words cant describe how much i despie terrorist "state" of russia

[-] nibbler@discuss.tchncs.de 19 points 2 months ago

watch out, or you might be kicked off your instance :D

[-] WrathEnchanter@europe.pub 6 points 2 months ago
[-] nibbler@discuss.tchncs.de 21 points 2 months ago

While certainly not all .ml users love russia, all russia lovers are in .ml.

Oft course thats not entirely true, but there are some weird communities there.

[-] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 11 points 2 months ago

Hey now let's be far not all of them are on .ml at least not exclusively. I'm sure there are plenty on hexbear for example.

[-] abbadon420@sh.itjust.works 10 points 2 months ago

Trains don't need gps, do they?

[-] FartMaster69@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 2 months ago

I mean, neither do cars or planes.

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[-] DrakeAlbrecht@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago
[-] AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 6 points 2 months ago

“GPS” would mean GNSS satellite systems like GPS, as well as terrestrial systems like AGPS and base-station-based triangulation. Given that modern train control systems involve transponders alongside the railway line, these can be used as well. Railway lines running through tunnels in particular would rely on non-satellite systems.

[-] DrakeAlbrecht@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

Rail lines use multiple redundant navigation and safety systems. GPS is one of them.

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[-] MintyFresh@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

Russia and Iran stole a drone a few years back. They did it by jamming and spoofing gps signals

[-] GuyIncognito@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 months ago

GPScels cope and seethe, unguided projectile and mapchads stay winning

[-] whatiswrongwithyou@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 months ago

Oh no, not something to push people to adopt new block 3 capable receivers!

Surely they won’t just use $20 glonass or beidou receivers…

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this post was submitted on 09 Jun 2026
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