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[-] windowsphoneguy@feddit.de 167 points 1 year ago

By pricing their models competitively, right?

...right?

[-] Tetsuo@jlai.lu 102 points 1 year ago

Exactly.

Europeans like Chinese electric vehicles because they are affordable.

Meanwhile European manufacturers are probably pushing behind the scene to restrict the Asian competitors on the market so they can decide what price is right.

In the next months in France they will reduce the subsidies for Electric Vehicle with a poor CO2 bill like imported Chinese cars.

So even less people will get to afford EVs.

I don't think this is just about cheap Chinese labor importing cheap Chinese cars to Europe. It's also about Europe ignoring the importance of battery tech and manufacturing for decades and suddenly acting all surprised that we are not competitive.

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[-] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 47 points 1 year ago

They have an electric suv under $20k usd

Sure, it’s probably gonna last like a mid-90’s Kia, but for the price it’s pretty nice.

[-] agitatedpotato@lemmy.dbzer0.com 28 points 1 year ago

At the rate of industrial investment into this tech coupled with some places punishing gas cars, a cheap car that spans the gap from now until affoedable and better EVs is the perfect prescription, not to mention we havent stopepd having some form or financial crises since covid.

[-] CmdrShepard@lemmy.one 12 points 1 year ago

I think it's debatable. Is it really good if all the energy that went into making the vehicle goes to waste because it only lasts 50k miles? At that point you're basically building disposable vehicles.

I think the sweet spot for this period is in hybrids that allow people to run on electricity around town but also have the ICE as a fallback for long/extended trips. The main hesitancy with EVs is range anxiety (ignoring high prices) and hybrids solve that issue while still retaining a lot of the benefits of an EV.

[-] Addv4@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The problem with that is that phevs are surprising expensive/heavy/complicated. It's why Chevy discontinued the volt over the bolt. And why chevy had to cut a lot of costs on the volt to get it down to a semi-acceptable price (the volt didn't even have power seats except on the Premier, and only on the drivers side).

[-] Satelllliiiiiiiteeee@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago

Honestly, I prefer not to have power seats. It's faster to adjust manual seats in my experience and there's both fewer things to break and less weight.

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[-] Astroturfed@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

The solid state batteries that seem to be clearly on the verge of mass production within the next few years are going to make everything they're making now horribly obsolete. I've been considering a EV for my next vehicle and will definitely be waiting now.

[-] JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 15 points 1 year ago

People have been saying that for years. They could well still be 10 years out since we've only recently gotten them working on test benches. I'm not going to keep burning gas in the meantime.

[-] Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago

I've seen so much EV vapourware come and go over the years, I'm extremely sceptical about any new technology like this.

I do sincerely hope it comes through though, range and charging speed are very much the limiting factors for EV tech right now.

[-] agitatedpotato@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 year ago

While researching Chinese EVs I came across articles about abandoned EVs, the article claimed it was because they were made obsolete (they have roughly 100 mile range or less) so they were abandoned for the newer cheaper models with 3-5x that range, that problem is probably gong to be a bigger one to tackle than Chinese EV longevity, which supposedly aims for roughly 200,000km lifecycle which is 125k miles (average ice car has a lifespan of 130k miles). It also showed me how close to production those batteries you are talking about are, there's a bold claim that the battery could be good for 2 million kilometers, if it's even on the same order of magnitude of that, it would make so many EVs 'obsolete'.

[-] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago

If I was in the market for a new car, I’d strongly consider them because of the cost even knowing the quality may be low. It’s still an EV and would hold its value for now. It’s a good alternative to the slim-pickings we have here in the states

[-] febra@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago

The political class trying to protect the interests of the billionaire class. You grow up under this capitalist system and all you hear is "competition is driving innovation" but the moment true competition comes knocking on your door, you lock yourself into a room.

[-] bioemerl@kbin.social 26 points 1 year ago

State literally calls itself communist. (Operates more like a fascist state than a communist one)

Conducts ever more of its industry through the state and strictly controls the banks and loans.

Exercises huge subsidies across the entire economy which is visible through their massive and growing imbalance between their internal consumption and export.

"You only say it's not capitalist because they aren't white"

No I say they aren't capitalist because they aren't capitalist.

[-] Peaty@sh.itjust.works 26 points 1 year ago

China is closer to neo-mercantilism due to the level if direct state involvement in private business.

[-] ChrisLicht@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago

As a nationalist economic policy, neo-mercantilism integrates well with the fascist economic model, particularly in this age when the masses are so accustomed to foreign goods that they might find the explicit notion of autarky alienating.

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[-] febra@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

And why should I, a European consumer, care if China has a communist economy or not?

Same shit to me. You live your entire life under capitalism being lied to about how "competition drives innovation" and suddenly when competition knocks on your door, you lock yourself in.

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[-] qooqie@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago

I’m not entirely sure why they want to fight low prices? The article doesn’t say why EU and others shouldn’t be able to afford e-vehicles

[-] lorez@lemm.ee 45 points 1 year ago

They undercut the sales of European vehicles which cost more.

[-] bioemerl@kbin.social 17 points 1 year ago

low prices

They're fighting Chinese market manipulation that is specifically designed to make the world dependent on them and lowers wages across the world by creating massive market imbalances. Every nation with two brain cells should ban the import of all Chinese vehicles and eventually all Chinese industry entirely.

[-] paintbucketholder@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Chinese electric car makers get absolutely massive state subsidies. There are companies like Nio that have never made a single dollar of profit. Nio has been losing money on every single car they sell, to the point where they've been losing almost a billion dollars in the last quarter alone.

However, China doesn't care. The state keeps financing these companies, because if they can undermine European and American auto makers to the point where they're simply unable to compete and maybe even completely collapse, then Chinese car makers will be the only ones left in the market, and they'll be able to charge any price they want.

And realistically, which American or European car maker will be able to compete with a multitude of Chinese competitors that all can afford to lose billions and billions every year without batting an eye?

So that's why they want to fight "low prices."

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[-] DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de 20 points 1 year ago

Is it racist to say I'd never buy a Chinese car just on principle?

[-] BassTurd@lemmy.world 55 points 1 year ago

If it's because you hate Asians, then yes. If it's because you believe China makes bad products or because of their unethical practices, then no.

[-] snooggums@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago

It could be all three since racists tend to think China makes bad products and have unethical practices because they are Chinese due to conflating race and culture.

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[-] isles@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

It could be, you'd have to define the principle.

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[-] Peaty@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago

Only if it had something to do with race. If it's because you don't think their manufacturing standards are high enough to feel safe that wouldn't be racist per se.

[-] Gsus4@mander.xyz 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Electric cars are so much simpler than ICEs...they're almost "phones with wheels"...so IF you happen to ~~"trust"~~ "buy" their phones, it's not a huge jump to cars...but it's a jump 😅 , just not on principle.

[-] DrDr@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

I get your point but choosing Chinese phones as a trust example is hilarious. Every Chinese phone has a backdoor straight to China.

[-] troyunrau@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago

Your Apple or Android have a high probability of having all or part made in China.

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[-] lustyargonian@lemm.ee 20 points 1 year ago

What is Europe if not Europeans?

[-] luciferofastora@lemmy.zip 21 points 1 year ago

Government trying to steer a herd of impulsive and selfish citizens into doing what makes sense for the collective (or what they believe makes sense (or what they're trying to convince us they believe makes sense))

[-] Username@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

deeper nested brackets Or what the car lobby tells them they should try to convince they believe makes sense

[-] Aceticon@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Not a single head of any of the car makers who participated in the rigging of diesel car emissions testing went to jail.

Diesel car emssions are thought to kill around 10000 people per year in Europe (not all of which the excess emissions resulting from the rigging, but part of it).

Not even human lives are more important than the wishes of the car lobby for european politicians.

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this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2023
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