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Trains (szmer.info)
submitted 3 months ago by Kkk2237pl@szmer.info to c/fuckcars@lemmy.world
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[-] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 150 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

"Trains wouldn't work in the US, we're too spread out"

Meanwhile, we did have a near-ubiquitous rail network a century ago and destroyed it.

Meanwhile, the US road network is the single most economically expensive undertaking in human history and has achieved complete ubiquity in almost every lived location in the country, all of it costing more per mile than your average rail line, much of it literally poured over old rail line.

Meanwhile, Europe is the size of the US and achieves equivalent rail density with far less investment.

Meanwhile, China is larger than the US, has an order of magnitude more people, an even more dispersed population, and achieved high speed rail ubiquity in less than two decades.

Anyone who tells you ubiquitous rail cannot work in the US because of our size and density is either disingenuous, misled, or ignorant.

edit - Or they're doing a bit!

[-] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 42 points 3 months ago

Reminds me of my home city where people argued that there was no way to incorporate urban rail into the city, but luckily the town is crisscrossed by bike trails. The bike trails were literally the rail bed from our urban train system that got torn out in the 50s.

[-] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 26 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I love and use rails-to-trails myself, but I can't shake the feeling that they're essentially motornormative culture scapegoating cyclists to bury any possible hope of reviving rail networks. The carbrained planner says "No you can't put the rails back in, you'd displace the cyclists!" While displacing cyclists every time they choose to exclude cycling infrastructure on streets.

[-] DisasterTransport@startrek.website 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I have similar feelings but I tell myself this: If nothing else rails to trails maintains the right of way. The carbrained city planner says you'll displace the cyclists, but in 30 years that planner will be retired or dead. What would kill railroads forever would be carving up the ROW and selling it off.

[-] grue@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago

Occasionally, in my most cynical moments, I have the same thought.

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[-] grue@lemmy.world 87 points 3 months ago

Wanna be even more upset, fellow Americans? Take a look at what we used to have:

[-] ApathyTree@lemmy.dbzer0.com 32 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

It was so widespread that I've never been to a small town, in the region I grew up in, that didn't have an old passenger rail station that was repurposed into something else. Your map starts well into the 1900s, my area started being built up hundreds of years before that. Shit my house is almost 100 years older, alone.

My current small town has THREE, ffs, but no, this rail can only be used for freight, because reasons

[-] grue@lemmy.world 12 points 3 months ago

Metro Atlanta's only passenger rail station that still exists, a tiny thing on Peachtree Road in Brookwood (just north of Midtown), was originally a commuter stop on the way to the big, beautiful stations downtown. They were all torn down decades ago.

I've just realized I don't even know how many traditional train stations (including ancillary commuter ones, but not including streetcars or the modern subway system) the city/metro area even had. It's gotta be dozens, at least.

[-] Krauerking@lemy.lol 5 points 3 months ago

Phoenix Arizona literally doesnt have a train station at all. You have to go 30 miles / 48km south to a suburb to catch a train and even then your destinations are heavily limited as you can only board a train from there 3 times a week.

Its a massive building downtown that just doesnt, supposedly because of failed union negotiations 3+ decades ago. Yeah we just let corporations get rid of everything for "efficiency" of cheap roads.

[-] gwl 31 points 3 months ago

Freight Trains in USA, for comparison.

You've got plenty of trains and train lines, but your government, unlike most of the world, refuses to subsidise public transit, so they all go for the option that's most profits-per-km, Freight

[-] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Another one I found:

rail

Apparently this is a weak point for Europe, and even other rail systems like China's. The US has a relatively efficient cargo rail network, while more stuff is shipped across the EU in trucks than it probably should be.

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[-] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 24 points 3 months ago

Here in Canada we have more former abandoned rail then active rail lines. And around where I am people are fighting to stop the old rail lines being used as biking and walking trails. YAY

[-] knexcar@lemmy.world 9 points 3 months ago

I feel like many people oppose rails to trails because then there’s much less of a chance it will become rails again, so you have to let go of the hope of any sort of trains coming back. Though becoming a trail is certainly a lot better than the track land being split up and sold off to developers, since then there’s no chance.

[-] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 5 points 3 months ago

Yeah, that is not at all the case here. There is no new passenger rail even as a dream and these rails used to be everywhere. We are talking about at least 40 years since a train was ever down these lines, and they have sat there doing nothing this whole time.

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[-] lemon@sh.itjust.works 21 points 3 months ago

Situation in Europe is far from ideal. In most cases it’s cheaper to fly than to travel by rail across multiple country borders – which I’ve always found odd, considering the journey takes much longer and each connection brings some degree of uncertainty.

18 min delays aren’t uncommon. Or your train being outright cancelled, announced only in the local language (fair enough).

The whole system is chronically underfunded, probably in part thanks to the car lobby

[-] mcv@lemmy.zip 9 points 3 months ago

I once heard of someone who had to go from somewhere in the south of England to London, and took a plane to Berlin and another to London because it was cheaper than the train.

I don't understand why plane tickets are so cheap compared to plane tickets. Part of it is that plane fuel isn't allowed to be taxed while other forms of energy are, but there's got to be more. The situation is insane.

Anyway, let's at least tax plane fuel.

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[-] MrsDoyle@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 months ago

The most ridiculous situation I came across was getting the train from Biarritz in France to Bilbao in Spain and back. I heard the phrase "It's another country" uttered in both French and Spanish - turns out they really hate each other! We had to walk a few minutes from France across the border to another station in Spain.

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[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 14 points 3 months ago

Cities in the US are simply too far apart. Do you really think you can maintain a train route that runs from the suburb of Houston to the suburb of Houston to the suburb of Houston to the suburb of Houston to the suburb of Austin to the suburb of Austin to the suburb of Austin to the suburb of Fort Worth to the suburb of Fort Worth to the suburb of Fort Worth to the suburb of Dallas to the suburb of Dallas to the suburb of Dallas to the suburb of Dallas?

It would never work.

[-] mrmacduggan@lemmy.ml 29 points 3 months ago

Have you seen how empty Texas is? And how flat it is? It's kinda ideal train territory. If Norway and Switzerland can set up train routes, the Great Plains certainly can.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 10 points 3 months ago

Have you seen how empty Texas is?

I live in Texas and I can assure you it is anything but empty. The major metroplexes are so sprawled that they've started banging into one another. Austin and San Antonio are functionally one super-city at this point. Ft Worth and Dallas started mingling decades ago. Houston has fully consumed six other neighboring cities over the last 40 years and is - itself - surrounded by suburban echoes of itself in the Woodlands, Sugar Land, Clear Lake, and Katy. You can drive dozens of miles in any direction and never leave "the city".

It’s kinda ideal train territory.

Absolutely. Or, at least, supplementing/replacing the big metro arteries (I-10, I-45, the various mega-loops) with rail would make a lot more sense than just stacking overpasses on top of one another.

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[-] Mk23simp 9 points 3 months ago

Cities in the US are far apart because of car-centric design, not the other way around. If we just invested more in other forms of transit, then our cities would not be so sprawling.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 19 points 3 months ago

Cities in the US are far apart because of car-centric design

Okay, dropping the act here, that's not actually true. Cities in the US aren't far apart when you consider the population-dense coastal areas (where large portions of the historical rail network are concentrated). That was my intended joke. You've got numerous large, increasingly dense suburbs all concentrated along highway corridors that run through urban centers. Like, we have everything you need for a successful rail line. In some cases we even have the rail lines. We just don't have terminals with commuter trains running on a schedule.

[-] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 7 points 3 months ago

Oh, it was a bit. Yikes you had me triggered lol

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[-] zloubida@sh.itjust.works 6 points 3 months ago

Why not, if it's the same distance?

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 15 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

You just don't understand civil engineering!

The American physiognomy is incompatible with high speed tubes full of other commuters. You need to be physically separated by a large metal box. Unless, of course, you're living in NYC, Chicago, Boston, or DC, for obvious reasons.

[-] AA5B@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago

At the risk of feeding a troll, they really aren’t. Sweet spot for high speed rail is generally considered two cities 300-500 miles apart. That covers most of the US population

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[-] twinnie@feddit.uk 11 points 3 months ago
[-] clay_pidgin@sh.itjust.works 9 points 3 months ago

I think it's only Amtrak, the main Intercity passenger rail service. There's a ton more freight rail, and hundreds of smaller regional rail services.

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[-] AA5B@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago

It’s worse than that, because it doesn’t show service level. The northeast corridor (Boston—>nyc—>dc) have great train frequency (even then they need to run more trains on holidays).

I believe the long distance routes are like one train per day. You’d have to be really dedicated or really desperate to deal with such slow unreliable trains which such low frequency. I do believe they’re there only to preserve track and collect votes rather than be useful. At this rate maybe in another century ….

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[-] LodeMike@lemmy.today 7 points 3 months ago

Americans be like: Chicago

[-] gwl 6 points 3 months ago

Overlaying the freight map over the passenger one is even more depressing

You have trains, a shitton, but "public transport isn't profitable"

[-] olenkoVD@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 3 months ago

Europe is not a single country. Sadly things are not the same everywhere. South-eastern european countries still lack the infrastructure required for secure transport with trains.

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[-] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 3 months ago

for some reason i always thought that the US is much larger than europe, but no, they're roughly equal size.

[-] BygoneNeutrino@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago

The biggest difference between the United States and Europe is their respective population densities. Trains are less of a convenience and more of necessity. If everyone had a vehicle, it would be nearly impossible just to drive down the road.

[-] markz@suppo.fi 4 points 3 months ago
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[-] SnarkoPolo@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago

Everyone support Murkan Cowboy Capitalism, and get out there and drive big clumsy SUVs!

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this post was submitted on 01 May 2026
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