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submitted 1 year ago by matcha_addict@lemy.lol to c/memes@lemmy.ml

This meme is from 2004. History repeats itself.

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[-] AllonzeeLV@lemmy.world 182 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
[-] matcha_addict@lemy.lol 90 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's important to note that the real disparity may be even far worse.

OCHA-OPT (the committee gathering this data) is strict about verifying validity of Palestinian casualties, requiring two independent, verified and non-affiliated sources. Casualties in Israel, however, they trust the media at face value. They also exclude a lot of Palestinian casualties even when verified in certain situations. Example, and I quote them:

People who were killed or injured in conflict-related incidents that took place in Israel and did not involve residents of the oPt are also excluded.

oPt (occupied Palestinian territories) are the areas that Israel does not directly oversee. So most of Israel is not oPt by their criteria.

Israel is notorious for restricting journalists reporting on Israeli crimes, and has murdered journalists countless of times, like last year the Christian Palestinian Shireen Abu Akleh reporting on the forced expulsion of Palestinians from Sheikh Jarrah (so not even in a war zone area). This causes many casualties to go unverified and thus undocumented.

And Israel has been caught lying before about its own casualties, like the 40 beheaded babies.

Take that as you will.

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[-] Anamana@feddit.de 159 points 1 year ago

I'm mostly pro Palestine, but using this picture with the subtitle 'history repeats itself' and therefore portraying what happened at the festival, and the other slaughter missions as a tiny goofy missile, feels kinda disproportionate. Don't you think?

[-] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 106 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

No. Hundreds of thousands will die in response to hundreds dying. The comic is still fully accurate even if "a single missile" is still condemnable.

[-] Anamana@feddit.de 28 points 1 year ago

I'm not talking about who shoots the biggest rockets and who kills more people here. I'm talking about portraying a literal slaughter fest as a tiny lil rocket, mosquito sting or whatever, which causes no harm at all. This is not the right comic & subtitle to show what happened 'today'. At least in my opinion. Because it's not disproportionate to what happened.

But feel free to disagree, it you think it is. To me OP is more or less mocking the victims and I find it distasteful. Especially because people were involved, who weren't even culturally part of this ethnical conflict in the first place.

And no I'm not part of team both sides bad, because this conflict involves more than two sides and in the end people in Gaza suffer the most.

[-] matcha_addict@lemy.lol 26 points 1 year ago

Where did I mock the victims? Do not put words in my mouth. Can you not make a half-sound argument without lying?

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[-] matcha_addict@lemy.lol 37 points 1 year ago

"history repeats itself" as in the people who only condemn needless killing when Hamas does it, but ignore the Palestinian cause the rest of the time.

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[-] HawlSera@lemm.ee 117 points 1 year ago

It isn't anti-Semitism to criticize israel, it's just noticing the obvious.

[-] winterayars@sh.itjust.works 63 points 1 year ago

There are criticisms that are antisemitic. This isn't one of them, though.

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[-] seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org 40 points 1 year ago

My favorite was when Bernie Sanders was called antisemitic for criticizing Israel. His response was something along the lines of "It isn't antisemitic to criticize a right-wing government in Israel." It must've taken all the patience in the world to not add "you fucking toolbags".

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[-] FierroGamer@sh.itjust.works 100 points 1 year ago

Dafuq is this meme? civilians are civilians, regardless of the country religion or whatever the duck they're born in.

[-] AllonzeeLV@lemmy.world 93 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If civilians are civilians...

"Amongst Israelis, 69% of those killed were civilians and 31% members of the IDF. The number of Israeli civilians killed, from attacks by Palestinian armed groups or individuals, has declined steadily, peaking in 2002 at an average of 22 deaths per month, and dropping markedly to an average of one civilian per month in 2007. 6/

In contrast to Israeli figures, however, Palestinian civilian fatalities have remained high. Palestinian civilians, killed by Israeli security forces, peaked with an average of 35 deaths per month in 2002, and again in 2004. In 2007 they dropped slightly to an average of ten civilian deaths per month."

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-208380/

Both sides kill civilians with abandon, and Israel is markedly better at it. Major media doesn't seem to care very much about Palestinian civilians though.

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[-] Astroturfed@lemmy.world 61 points 1 year ago

I completely agree with you. Which is why when you look at the grotesque number of civilians Israel kills every year it's pretty easy to condem them.

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[-] SigloPseudoMundo@lemmy.ml 72 points 1 year ago

Take a look at this guy's other Palestine Israel Post and decide if you wanna upvote this terrorist enjoyer.

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[-] keropoktasen@lemmy.world 53 points 1 year ago

This is highly misleading. Hamas is not palestine and vice versa. What israel is fighting against is hamas, who are cowardly hiding behind civilians. The only reason the israeli can survive thousands of rocket launch from hamas over the years was because of their superior defence system. Hamas' own rocket sometimes fell into their own territory, killing palestinian, but many people would just shut their eyes to this.

[-] matcha_addict@lemy.lol 34 points 1 year ago

Israel is fighting against all of Palestine, not just Hamas.

who are cowardly hiding behind civilians

Israel won't let civilians outside of Gaza. They want Hamas to be among civilians. Moreover, Israel brutalizes Palestinians who live inside Israeli borders, without Hamas troops present.

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[-] Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml 51 points 1 year ago

Upvote this to the front page so that lemmy world sees it.

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[-] istdaslol@feddit.de 47 points 1 year ago

One site is kidnapping children and senior citizens, raping them und displaying them in public. The other is demolishing buildings, where a terror organisation is hiding, with a 3h notice.

No offence but you fell for pollywood

[-] OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 52 points 1 year ago

The other is demolishing buildings, where a terror organisation is hiding, with a 3h notice.

How much CNN did you read to come to this conclusion?

Gaza is literally 5-11km thick the entire way down, with nearly 6,000 people per square kilometer. That's half the density of New York, in significantly smaller buildings.

Where are these people going to go, when 30% of Gaza is indiscriminately carpet bombed? They're not even allowed to leave the city. They can't go to Egypt, they can't go into the sea, and they can't go to Israel. The roads are literally blocked, while 100,000+ people try to flee the bombing zones. Oh also, did I mention they no longer have a source of water and food?

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[-] Baahb@lemmy.world 41 points 1 year ago

Oh yes, they have fallen for UN provided statistics https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties

6400 Palestinians killed compared to 300 isrealis? Totally just knocking down hamas's headquarters every time!

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[-] Diabolo96@lemmy.dbzer0.com 36 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yeah , the usual pro-israel talk.

I can show you countless evidence of Isreal doing worse several times in the past but people like you don't care and never will.

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[-] Blapoo@lemmy.ml 35 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Both "sides" have human lives in the middle getting chewed up.

One of them also holds all the power to stop all of this

Also - A 3 hr notice before bombing civilian infrastructure! How quickly could you move out given 3 hours!?

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[-] jackmarxist@lemmy.ml 34 points 1 year ago
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[-] HorriblePerson@feddit.nl 41 points 1 year ago

I agree with the comic. I do however disagree with the title. I think the Hamas' attack shouldn't to be called "resistance", just as Israel's response shouldn't be called "self defense".

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[-] sneezymrmilo@lemmy.world 39 points 1 year ago

Man is there any popular meme communities on lemmy that ban Political posts? Getting sick of this community.

[-] cyclohexane@lemmy.ml 27 points 1 year ago

I doubt there's any. There's not a good definition of a "political meme" that wouldn't have many people disagreeing whether certain memes are political or not, hence breeding power trip mods and bias. Most likely, it'll just be allowing the political memes that agree with mods opinions, or are status quo to the mods, and hence not seemingly "political" even if it is.

But if you find one, please comment it here. I'd love to see it.

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[-] STUPIDVIPGUY@lemmy.world 34 points 1 year ago

im not pro palestine im anti israel

war is hell, neither side is good, but resistance is only human

[-] matcha_addict@lemy.lol 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Why not pro Palestine? They are the resistance to Israel.

[-] FaceDeer@kbin.social 59 points 1 year ago

It's possible for both sides of a conflict to suck.

[-] matcha_addict@lemy.lol 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It is possible. But in this case, it is occupier vs occupied. An ethnoreligious state vs stateless people being ethnically cleansed. Something being possible doesn't make it factual.

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[-] DoubleOwl7777@feddit.de 30 points 1 year ago

both sides are stupid. youd think after all these years of fighting a compromise could be found, but NO, they just always fight. gives me the feeling that they dont want it any other way.

[-] addys@lemmy.ninja 41 points 1 year ago

I doubt that you will be swayed by facts, but just for the record: in 2000 Israel offered Hamas to become a fully sovereign nation on 100% of Gaza's territory (and 95% of the West Bank) with East Jerusalem as their capital. Hamas declined. In 2005 Israel voluntarily disengaged from Gaza and enabled self-rule, hoping this would be a step towards peace. It wasn't. In 2011 there was another offer for a "two states for two peoples" solution, Hamas once again rejected it.

None of this is surprising since the Hamas is a fanatic Muslim group following the most militant tenets of Islam. Their publicly-stated charter is to utterly destroy Israel ("drive the jews into the sea") and create a Muslim nation on the entire area of Palestine. So anything less than that is a non-starter. Any Jew left alive in Israel means that they haven't finished yet.

Note that there's nothing in the charter about the Palestinian people - The Hamas takes no civic or sovereign responsibility for the population which they govern. In other words, Hamas sees the Palestinian people as a consumable resource in their fight to bring Islam to 100% of the territory historically referred to as "Palestine". So building tunnels under schools and hospitals is allowed. Diverting humanitarian aid to the military infrastructure while the population starves is fine. Indoctrinating children from kindergarten about the glory of killing Jews is standard procedure. etc. Using the Gaza residents as human shields is valuable both for reducing Hamas casualties as well as increasing collateral damage which makes Israel "look bad" in the international community.

Compromise is difficult because when negotiating with someone who wants you dead, how do you meet them halfway ?

[-] BaldProphet@kbin.social 27 points 1 year ago

Go further back, even. The UN Partition Plan for Palestine in 1947 would have given Palestine its own territory, splitting it with Israel 45/55. The Arab League and Arab Higher Committee of Palestine both rejected it.

It's not like compromises have never been offered. The Arabs have simply never been willing to accept anything less than the expulsion of the Jews from the territory.

[-] FaceDeer@kbin.social 42 points 1 year ago

From their perspective, someone just moved into their house one day and when they objected they said "let's compromise, you can keep half of the house." No wonder they rejected that compromise.

Unfortunately we're now a couple of generations past that initial event so it's a lot more complicated at this point.

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[-] matcha_addict@lemy.lol 23 points 1 year ago

Why agree to this "compromise" when Israel violated the previous one?

Drive the vast majority of a population from their homes, and to a tiny strip of their former homeland, then "generously" offer them to just remain there in their little concentration camp. And not even guaranteed, given Israel's history. Gee, I wonder why they rejected?

It's not surprising that this is what occupiers think is "compromise".

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[-] ytg@feddit.ch 24 points 1 year ago

I mean, both Hamas and Israeli leadership should be prosecuted for war crimes

I just think this situation shouldn't have even been reached in the first place...

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[-] Gxost@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago

Casualties? Hamas wanted to kill as many citizens of Israel as possible, no matter of what nationality they were. Even tourists were killed. Casualties are about bad luck, but Hamas victims were murdered because of evil intention. They cannot be compared to Palestinian casualties in any way.

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this post was submitted on 13 Oct 2023
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