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submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by Deep@mander.xyz to c/science@mander.xyz

Study.

The study, published in PNAS, examined Wisconsin state testing records, archival information about when Wisconsin cities began to fluoridate their water, and data from the Wisconsin Longitudinal Study, which has followed a random sample of 10,317 high school seniors from 1957 through 2026. Key findings include:

  • There is no evidence supporting a connection between community water fluoridation and children’s IQ.
  • There is also no evidence supporting a connection between community water fluoridation and cognitive functioning at various points later in life.
  • Findings confirm evidence published in previous research which also used a national sample, but considered school achievement test scores instead of actual IQ scores.
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[-] Doomsider@lemmy.world 1 points 22 minutes ago

People don't even know fluoride in municipal water supplies is a waste product of fertilizer production.

There has never been a reason to drink fluoride because it works topically. Ingesting it has no benefit and causes unsightly fluorosis.

It is a poison if diluted enough doesn't really cause any problems just like diluting any poison enough.

The entire case for adding to water supply relies on no brushing or dental care because if you brush and have dental care there is no measurable difference by also having it in the water.

It is unnecessary and dumb to do in a modern country.

[-] sbeak@sopuli.xyz 9 points 15 hours ago

For your information if you think fluoridation of water is bad:

Fluoride in the water is the opposite of bad, it’s good for your teeth. It’s in toothpaste for a reason! There is no reasonable evidence that fluoride causes any major health problems, in fact, the fluoridation of water is dubbed as one of the largest public health accomplishments in a while. In addition, the fluoride added to water is miniscule, tiny, far far too low in concentration to be toxic. 0.7-1.2 mg / L is the range that most countries that implement water fluoridation add to their water supply. For reference, the WHO recommends 1.5 mg / L as the upper limit. Additionally, in many places, the groundwater has fluoride levels a bit higher than that.It also occurs in plenty of foods naturally too (fruits, seafood, spinach, etc.)

Some more information of fluoride:

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/11195-fluoride

https://www.cdc.gov/oral-health/prevention/about-fluoride.html

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S000291652334718X

In many countries, particularly in developing nations, fluoridation of water is too expensive (since you need the infrastructure for it), and fluoride toothpastes are preferred instead. But in industrialised countries, where infrastructure for managing the water supply already exists, fluoridation of water is more effective.

Ireland and England both implement the fluoridation of water. In particular, 73% of Ireland’s population drinks fluoridised water

https://ukhsa.blog.gov.uk/2016/04/13/water-fluoridation-what-it-is-and-how-it-helps-dental-health/ (UK) https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4081215/ (Ireland)

Additionally, so does Canada:

https://www.canada.ca/en/services/health/publications/healthy-living/fluoride-factsheet.html https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/healthy-living/community-water-fluoridation-across-canada.html

Other solutions to provide fluoride have also been pursued, such as in toothpastes (already mentioned), iodized salts, and milk. They each have varying effectiveness depending on the country.

TLDR:

  • Fluoride added to water is too low to pose any significant health problems
  • There are no studies to suggest that the 0.5-1.5 mg / L range that the WHO promotes is dangerous
  • It's not just the U.S., fluoridisation of water is present in Ireland, England, and Canada
  • For the countries that do not pursue adding it to water, fluoridation is done through toothpastes, iodized salts, and milk
  • Different strategies of fluoridation are pursued because some are more effective than others for that given region (e.g. toothpastes are more viable than treatment of water in developing nations)
  • Fluoride is already present in many natural sources (fruits, veg, groundwater, etc.) and is safe in the recommended low concentrations (need to reiterate this!)
[-] sbeak@sopuli.xyz 3 points 15 hours ago

Arguing with internet people took many hours away from my life, so now I will redirect any silly discussion to this comment instead.

[-] sbeak@sopuli.xyz 1 points 15 hours ago

@CookieOfFortune@lemmy.world @fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world @pelespirit@sh.itjust.works @MrFappy@lemmy.world

Here you go

[-] Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works 25 points 1 day ago

Dammit. Why have I been drinking all this water then?

[-] RamenJunkie@midwest.social 14 points 1 day ago

Better teef

[-] bizarroland@lemmy.world 33 points 1 day ago

Damn it. I was gonna come in here and be like, "Ah, that's what big fluoride wants you to think, sheeple!"

You know, like a crazy person.

But it turns out the actual crazy people who truly believe that stupid shit are already out in full force.

[-] singforabsolution@feddit.uk 3 points 18 hours ago

My college teacher would be devastated

[-] derry@midwest.social 19 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)
[-] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 day ago

I'm going to post this again, because everyone needs to fucking understand that science is studying results and a process:

What about autoimmune diseases and inflammation? It looks like there might be a link, but they haven't studied it enough.

Based on the body surface area of humans and animals, and considering the metabolism and absorption of fluoride in rats, according to calculations, the WHO’s safety threshold for fluoride intake from drinking water (1.5 mg/L) corresponds to a fluoride concentration of 10 mg/L in the drinking water of rats. After 1 week of acclimatization, the 150 rats were randomly assigned to 5 groups (n = 30) and provided with drinking water containing 0, 10, 25, 50, or 100 mg/L of fluoride. Although 50 and 100 mg/L are not equivalent to the doses humans are exposed to in natural environments, they are commonly used in animal models of fluorosis and have been widely demonstrated to be robust in rat models of fluorosis [35,36,37]. According to the exposure mode and time of fluoride, it can be divided into three modes: fluoride treatment for 12 weeks (12 w), fluoride treatment for 24 weeks (24 w), and fluoride treatment for 12 weeks and 12 weeks of improve water(12 w12 wi) (Table S1). Rats were euthanized with isoflurane anesthesia at the end of the breeding period.

https://www.mdpi.com/2305-6304/13/2/95

[-] sbeak@sopuli.xyz 9 points 1 day ago

copying my answer from a different comment relating to fluoride:

Fluoride in the water is the opposite of bad, it's good for your teeth. It's in toothpaste for a reason! There is no reasonable evidence that fluoride causes any major health problems, in fact, the fluoridation of water is dubbed as one of the largest public health accomplishments in a while. In addition, the fluoride added to water is miniscule, tiny, far far too low in concentration to be toxic. It also occurs in plenty of foods naturally too (fruits, seafood, spinach, etc.)

Some more information of fluoride:

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/11195-fluoride

https://www.cdc.gov/oral-health/prevention/about-fluoride.html

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S000291652334718X

[-] CookieOfFortune@lemmy.world 4 points 20 hours ago

Eh the first major study in fluoride, the Grand Rapids study would never hold up to today’s standards. It was not a blind study and cavity detection is subjective.

Also drinking water is a poor way to deliver fluoride. The mechanism of action requires physical contact with your teeth to work. Toothpaste and mouthwash would be a better option and reduce consumption. To my knowledge, there hasn’t been a modern large scale study conducted looking into different delivery methods. We do have some evidence comparing countries that don’t fluoridate but still have low cavity rates.

And while rare, fluoride allergies do exist.

It can also be difficult to dose.

[-] sbeak@sopuli.xyz 4 points 20 hours ago

the first major study in fluoride, the Grand Rapids study would never hold up to today’s standards. It was not a blind study and cavity detection is subjective.

There has been many more studies on fluoride, none of which have shown that that the low concentrations of fluoride added to drinking water has any negative health effect. Not just the one, always check multiple sources!

Also drinking water is a poor way to deliver fluoride

It depends on the area you're dealing with. In some countries, it's more cost effective to put fluoride in the water supply, while in others, fluoride toothpastes are more effective. In Germany, they put fluoride in iodized salt!

[-] CookieOfFortune@lemmy.world 2 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

There has been many more studies on fluoride, none of which have shown that that the low concentrations of fluoride added to drinking water has any negative health effect.

Again, there have not been any randomized control trials testing the efficacy of fluoride in drinking water compared to other delivery methods.

It depends on the area you're dealing with. In some countries, it's more cost effective to put fluoride in the water supply, while in others, fluoride toothpastes are more effective. In Germany, they put fluoride in iodized salt!

Did you just not read my comment? The reason isn’t cost, it’s not that expensive to add fluoride.

The reason is we wouldn’t be adding anything to drinking water if there were better alternatives. If we started again with today’s standards, no scientist would recommend fluoridated drinking water.

[-] sbeak@sopuli.xyz 3 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

The reason isn’t cost, it’s not that expensive to add fluoride.

In many countries, particularly in developing nations, fluoridation of water is too expensive (since you need the infrastructure for it), and fluoride toothpastes are preferred instead. But in industrialised countries, where infrastructure for managing the water supply already exists, fluoridation of water is more effective. Places where tap water is more readily available (like the U.S., ~~much of Western Europe~~, Canada, Ireland, etc.) will also be more likely to adopt the fluoridation of water.

The reason is we wouldn’t be adding anything to drinking water if there were better alternatives. If we started again with today’s standards, no scientist would recommend fluoridated drinking water.

Fluoridation of water still helps to prevent tooth decay, and in regions where it is cost-effective, it is a great benefit to public health! Of course, fluoride toothpastes are great, but it's not the best solution for everywhere.

[-] CookieOfFortune@lemmy.world 2 points 16 hours ago

much of Western Europe, etc.) will also be more likely to adopt the fluoridation of water.

Citation needed.

Of course, fluoride toothpastes are great, but it's not the best solution for everywhere.

Why not? Or more specifically, why is this insufficient in the US? Are there studies comparing the efficacies?

[-] sbeak@sopuli.xyz 3 points 16 hours ago

much of Western Europe

Correction added to my comment, it looks like that for most of Western Europe, fluoridation in water is not common. That was a mistake and I acknowledge that, and I have edited my comment to reflect that.

However, Ireland and England both implement the fluoridation of water. In particular, 73% of Ireland's population drinks fluoridised water

https://ukhsa.blog.gov.uk/2016/04/13/water-fluoridation-what-it-is-and-how-it-helps-dental-health/ (UK) https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4081215/ (Ireland)

Additionally, so does Canada:

https://www.canada.ca/en/services/health/publications/healthy-living/fluoride-factsheet.html https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/healthy-living/community-water-fluoridation-across-canada.html

Why not? Or more specifically, why is this insufficient in the US?

Well, for one, tap water is readily available in the U.S., making fluoride super accessible to a large portion of the population! Also, fluoride toothpastes exist in the U.S. too, why can't we have both? Both are effective at preventing tooth decay, perhaps toothpaste moreso (and there are studies that show that, you can easily search for yourself I think), but both help to prevent cavities.

[-] CookieOfFortune@lemmy.world 1 points 9 hours ago

why can't we have both?

Because drinking water is a basic need and should not be medicated when it’s not even a great way to apply the medicine.

Note that while the risk of issues from proper dosing is low. Improper dosing can and does occur. Sandy City, Hooper Bay, Richmond to list a few. When you improperly dose community water you’re affecting everyone using the water.

If toothpaste or mouthwash was improperly dosed, it would be mostly spit out and the risk is minimized while also maximizing exposure to the enamel.

[-] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago

That doesn't clearly communicate the levels of fluoride necessary to show such a response.

[-] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 day ago

That's the part where they need to study it more.

[-] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago

Or they could have just shared that information from the study.

this post was submitted on 14 Apr 2026
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