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systemd(ont) (www.arscyni.cc)
submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by arsCynic@piefed.social to c/linux@lemmy.ml

Because of the ubiquity, nay, monopoly of systemd I always assumed it was miles ahead of other init systems. Nope. I've been using a non-systemd environment for a while and must say I'm surprised by how little breaks, i.e., next to nothing. Moreover, boot and shutdown times are faster, and more of that good stuff. I suggest trying it out.

https://nosystemd.org/.

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[-] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 11 hours ago

in theory systemd is faster because it can do things in parallel

[-] mactan@lemmy.ml 25 points 1 day ago

steady hand and a magnetized needle is all I need. kernel is bloat

[-] juipeltje@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago

I'm sure this post isn't going to be controversial at all lol

[-] fozid@feddit.uk 16 points 1 day ago

After over a decade using systemd in arch and Debian, I never had any direct issues with it. However, I never truly got my head around it or got comfortable with how it functioned. I recently swapped arch for void which uses runit, and after over a month using it I to an amazed both how clean and simple it is, how everything just works, how easy to interact and use runit is and am blown away by boot and shutdown times. My arch / systemd setup was heavily optimised for boot, and I thought was quick, but runit starts in about 4 seconds and shutdown is about 2 seconds.

[-] sudoer777@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 day ago

Systemd has been putting a lot of effort into eliminating the need for SUID binaries with run0 and polkit integrations, so I'm curious if other init systems are doing anything similar.

[-] azimir@lemmy.ml 39 points 1 day ago

Use what works for you.

Develop what scratches your itch.

Don't tell OSS devs who are volunteering unpaid labor what they should do for you.

If you want a solution that's non-systemd go for it. If it doesn't exist make it or pay someone to do so. Write from scratch or fork a project and get to work. That's the way of the Bazaar.

I'll be in my unenlightened "things work for me good enough" Linux world using what works. Systemd is fine and rarely gives me problems. Actually, I'm not even sure I can remember any.

Huge thank you's to the devs who make this all possible. You rock!

[-] Liketearsinrain@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 day ago

Systemd is developed primarily by paid developers.

[-] zurchpet@lemmy.ml 4 points 23 hours ago

I think that is a good thing, isn't it?

[-] Liketearsinrain@lemmy.ml 3 points 23 hours ago

Of course it is, I was just addressing the part about "unpaid volunteers". I think it's fair game to criticize a corporation throwing their weight around to push their tools on the ecosystem.

[-] greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo 17 points 1 day ago

Its built antithetically to the unix principles, it uses binlogs, its slow and its a big ol' bloated mess on low-memory embedded devices, and seemingly is creeping into the whole system.

Also the original author has since fucked off to microslop so I don't care what he thinks or does.

It, as a project, also bent the fucking knee.

[-] marmalade@sh.itjust.works 3 points 14 hours ago

Oh hey it's the same nonsense people have been saying for a decade now.

First of all, Linux is not Unix, and Unix principles were developed in like the fuckin 80s when what a computer is and does was different from what it is and does today. I'm betting you also use other software that doesn't follow the 'Unix' philosophy all the damn time, like, I dunno, the browser you used to post this nonsense. It was a guiding principle, not meant to be a dogmatic religious ideology. Also it not being the best choice for low memory embedded devices doesn't mean anything. It was designed for the desktop. These are very different platforms with very different needs. That's like complaining that the wheels on my car don't let it fly.

Also, bent the knee to who?

[-] greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo 1 points 13 hours ago

You can get fucked in this thread too.

[-] greyfrog@sh.itjust.works 3 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

Really? Okay, so curl. You use it everyday. How's that using 'unix' principles?

You're just parroting the same old tired arguments.

[-] greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo 2 points 16 hours ago

Curl does exactly one thing and it does it very well.

Systemd aspires to do all the things and does nothing very well.

[-] eldavi@lemmy.ml 3 points 16 hours ago

careful! advocating against systemd in this community will get you branded for heresy. lol

[-] flying_sheep@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

That old load of bullshit again. You could swap out the logs if you want a shittier, less searchable (but text based) logging system. The rest can be countered in a similarly conclusive way, and has been repeatedly in the last decade or so.

Inform yourself before copy-pasting misinformation and misleading propaganda.

[-] Liketearsinrain@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

less searchable

text based

I don't know how you reach this conclusion, the format has been standardized for decades.

[-] flying_sheep@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago

Can you add more fields? Is there no ambiguity in context switching? No breakage around whitespace?

If so, sure, that's fine then.

[-] Liketearsinrain@lemmy.ml 3 points 23 hours ago

They both get ingested into Splunk (or whatever tool is used by the company) in any context where this would be a problem. It's one of those things that in practice has never been a problem in my experience.

By the point/scale that context switching, log injection (forging) whitespace is a concern, I'm not piping shell commands. It's over engineered.

[-] flying_sheep@lemmy.ml 2 points 13 hours ago

Nah, the issue is accidental corruption, different parsers doing things differently, stuff like that. Happens often with “mostly text but actually some structured data also” formats, doesn't happen with formats that have well specified framing.

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[-] PseudoSpock@lemmy.dbzer0.com 27 points 1 day ago

Boot speed is meaningless. Having to almost never reboot is everything.

[-] OR3X@lemmy.world 1 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

True, but for some reason there are a bunch of people who shutdown their PC every time they're done using it and unless you're using a laptop, I have never understood that. Screen lock + monitor sleep is the way.

[-] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 day ago
[-] thingsiplay@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago

Sleep doesn't work well in some environments, like right now my current one using AMD+AMD hardware on EndeavourOS. Therefore I do boot. And couldn't care less for 10 seconds faster or slower boot times.

[-] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago

Lol, I meant this to be a tongue-in-cheek saying

[-] thingsiplay@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago

Oh... :D But you were right.

[-] False@lemmy.world 47 points 1 day ago

I've never had systemd break either

[-] greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo 15 points 1 day ago

I have. Never had your machine just sit there and refuse to boot because a network share is down? Or because the wifi isn't connected yet? Or because its waiting on some nebulous thing until timeout..

Never had to crawl through journalctl to diagnose things and wanted to claw your own eyes out in frustration?

You are a fortunate person.

[-] Wolf314159@startrek.website 2 points 17 hours ago

Ever really destroyed your server because the it needed were available? I have. It was so much worse than a boot process that froze.

If Systemd was pausing due to a network share being down, it's only because I (or you) told it to do exactly that. There are lots of good reasons to delay the boot process until all drives the system expects to be there are actually there or the network is up. Cleaning up the mess that happens when the system does not check these kinds of things at boot is so much worse. It's never really some nebulous thing. Like it or not, intentional or not, the machine is doing exactly what you asked it to do and a delayed boot or a boot halted until you can solve the real problem is almost always better (or at least safer) than the alternatives. I've experienced all the things you've mentioned, dealt with each of those issues, and it was so much more of a hassle to diagnose before Systemd.

[-] Archr@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago

If you are having those issues with booting maybe it is because you configured your network share incorrectly? If you are waiting on shutdown timeouts for something then just go edit the timeout. systemctl edit <stuck thing>.

Typically when I crawl through journald it is to diagnose a problem with a specific application. Actually, the fact that those logs are easily accessible in a centralized place with easy to understand commands to access them is a reason why systemd (or more specifically systemd-journald) is so great.

The only times that I have had major issues like that was either because (A) I misconfigured something or (B) a package came misconfigured.

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[-] KernelTale@programming.dev 3 points 1 day ago

My system once refused to boot, because I deleted a partition and didn't remove it from fstab. Thankfully it was an easy and fast fix but I would expect it to just boot and give an error.

[-] vaionko@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 day ago

That's why I always put a nofail option for all my drives except the boot drive

[-] flying_sheep@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago

Right, that happened to me too.

And it's a problem 100% unrelated to systemd, so I wouldn't count it here.

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[-] balsoft@lemmy.ml 29 points 1 day ago

Honestly for desktop usage it doesn't really matter. All inits have their idiosyncrasies ("A stop job is running for Session"/logging hell on openrc/etc). But for managing a fleet of bare-metal servers I find systemd to be the best, most polished one out of the lot.

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this post was submitted on 14 Apr 2026
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Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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