I've never worked on a codebase where using ORMs wasn't better than rolling your own queries. What are people writing that they actually need the marginal performance gains? And even if that's worth it, why not just use raw queries in your critical paths?

Every time I have to write or modify raw SQL it feels like I'm throwing away all my static checking features and increasing the chance of bugs, because I have no idea of the query matches my schema or if it'll blow up at runtime.

Two choices always seem to end up as the fate of any large scale, long-term developed database application. Either you use an ORM, or you build your own piece by piece. I know which one makes more sense to me.

I consider the ORM hate uninformed and misguided at best. Just like any other technology not all of them are created equally there are better ones and worse ones. I have used Entity Framework Core for years and have almost no complaints but If I only knew ORMs like NHibernate then I might have a different opinion.

I love asking new hires about ORMs. If they don't have anything bad to say about them I know they've never used them.

I like ORM's because they prevent sql injection. Mostly. Sql injection is a really bad vuln that's nowhere near as ubiqitous as it used to be for every php app, and that's partly due to ORM's.

Yeah, this is one of those issues that I feel separates the seniors from the, uh, less experienced seniors. (Let's be real, as a junior, you know jackshit about this.)

Knowing when to use an ORM, when to use SQL vs. NoSQL, all of that is stuff you basically only learn through experience. And experience means building multiple larger applications with different database technologies, bringing them into production and seeing them evolve over time.

It takes multiple years to do that for one application, so you need a decade or more experience to be able to have somewhat of an opinion.
And of course, it is all too easy to never explore outside of your pond, to always have similar problems to solve, where an SQL database does the job well enough, so a decade of experience is not a guarantee of anything either...

Having seen what the ORM hate leads to. Just use the ORM folks. Far better in the long to do so! Nothing has come close to ActiveRecord imo in Typescript or Python sadly. Unless anyone has a library or two I should check out?

I’m starting to think more that I shouldn’t call my library, Numph.js, an ORM. It technically is one, but it’s very different than other ORMs. A lot of the stuff he’s talking about here doesn’t apply to Nymph (for better or for worse). I just don’t know what to call it though.