You know whose hurt by high prices? Poor people. Guess whose not hurt by them? Rich people.
Exactly. Based on this, and based on OP's other responses, OP is basically saying "I want poor people to suffer so rich people can make more money" (off of new car sales with more efficient engines, or electric).
So my question for them is: is the income divide not great enough? If not, when will it be?
That's mainly a problem for car-brained people. There are other modes of transportation, you know.
No, there aren't.
Plenty of places have no other option.
have no other option yet
People like you remind me of evangelical Christians.
You are all perfectly content to have other people suffer in hopes that a wonderful future will emerge.
If you want to suffer, go right ahead. Don't expect other people to be miserable so you can feel superior.
yeah, let's keep things just the way they are and stop hoping that societal changes can be a motor for improvement
all I'm saying is there aren't alternatives YET, but situations like this could create a positive change in mindset and eventually infrastructure as well. fine by me if you want to be a glass-half-empty kind of person
Yea, because alternate options just pop up over night.
There are many regions where alternative forms of transport aren't very viable. Nearly non-existent public transit and bike infrastructure because everything was designed from the beginning with cars in mind. Zoning requirements that mean everything is spread out and impossible to walk between. Possibly even combined with terrible weather for much of the year.
Places where making changes to fix those issues, increase public options, etc. are met with stiff political backlash, not necessarily from the car people, but just simple conservatives or regressives that don't think any money should be spent on that infrastructure, often simply because it's not something they'd use.
but, and I realise this might be a bit utopian, the more people (have to) use alternative modes of transportation, the more the need for better infrastructure will grow. domino effect and all that
Oh definitely, but making those changes requires funding them. And that's virtually impossible to get voters to approve in some places currently.
Building a city wrong doesn't mean "alternative forms of transport aren't very viable;" it means the city was built wrong and that must be corrected.
And make no mistake, that is very viable: the Netherlands already did it (it was not always like that: it was rebuilt for cars after WWII and then rebuilt again starting in the 1970s when they realized they'd fucked up). Paris is doing it right now. It is not actually hard, and it is not actually expensive -- at least not compared to the long-term societal costs of continuing car-dependency.
because everything was designed from the beginning with cars in mind.
This is a straight-up lie, BTW. All the cities -- including "newer" sunbelt ones, like LA or Houston or Atlanta -- were in fact built for walking and streetcars first, and then demolished to accommodate cars.
Its true! I strongly believe in public transport. Particularly the transport that is also dependent on oil... Where I live though, if I wanted to get to work without my car it would change my trip time from 45m - 1.5h to about 2h-3h. Each way. I don't feel like spending 6h travelling so it's not really a choice for many of us.
That’s mainly a problem for (poor) car-brained people.
Are car brained people going to be the only ones affected by rising food prices due to an increase in transportation costs? How about those that don't have any other means but to drive to work to make a living because public transportation isn't available and buying an EV isn't an option?
It's not just an issue for car brained people, it's also an issue for narrow minded people, such as yourself.
Yeah, in a major metropolitan area.
Trains are cool! There's like two train tracks that go through town and they only carry freight. There are no passenger trains anywhere around here.
We also have buses. They don't come within 5 miles of me. Also a non-starter.
I guess it's cool to hate cars if you live with your parents, but for those of us with bills to pay, we gotta go get that bread. But uh, have fun with your online gaming or whatever. It's just not sustainable for most of us.
You don’t think poor people suffer from climate change? Or are you a science denier?
You know who could hurt rich people? Poor people.
You know who hurt people? Hurt people.
The cycle doesn't end unless you end it. Eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
A lot of people in the US still have states that don't allow mail-in voting, and can't get off work to vote. Those people are poor.
A lot of poor people voted against this. Didn't matter- they still got it.
They're going to suffer heavily. We can all try to do what we can to reduce the use of fossil fuels, but consumers have not had enough power to do anything meaningful at any point in my lifetime.
Rich people will still technically be affected, but yeah they aren't going to go hungry.
I'm hoping some of the poor people start to realize how dependent they are on gas though. They've been too comfortable with subsidized gas for too long, with us taxpayers all paying to lower gas prices artificially. It's time they notice and start thinking that maybe it's time to think about carpooling or buying smaller cars.
I think people moving to EVs is great, but if you absolutely need to get a car, the more economical and environmentally friendly option is to purchase a second hand vehicle regardless if it's electric or petrol based. Everyone suddenly switching to an EV would cause a catastrophic amount of waste to accrue. Second hand evs are also more expensive than second hand petrol cars AND are more likely to have problems. EV adoption will be gradual, but punishing the struggling working class for daring to use what they can afford AND not throwing working vehicles into the trash is pretty ignorant in my opinion.
Have any data to back up second hand EVs being less reliable than second hand gas cars? Everything I’ve personally experienced is that as long as the battery is liquid cooled, they’re practically maintenance free.
We will be facing extinction by the end of the century if we don’t stop putting greenhouse gases into the stratosphere today.
Bring it, my preferred ride is a bicycle. I am usually bummed when I have to drive even though I have a fun car with manual and AWD.
I agree. We need every bit of war against fossil fuels, even if we burn with them!
Pretty stupid take really.
Fuel isn't just for people to put in their cars and drive to the shops.
Oil is one of those “have to have” things for most people. Fixed demand + reduced supply = pure profit for those who sell it, and that’s about it. And not even a productive kind; it’s kinda a wealth transfer without any actual change in what’s being traded.
Agree with this one! More people being thoughtful about their mode of transportation is a positive aspect
Why?
Because of climate change and my hatred of breathing in diesel fumes when a truck passes by. I want to see more efficient electric vehicles. With gas prices high the alternative becomes more viable, and it exposes how volatile fossil fuels are.
I agree, but expecting change in the next 6 months, maybe up to five years, is unrealistic, particularly under a government that actively encourages the use of fossil fuels.
But it can be a waking call for many people that didn't though about changing to EV and solar panels.
I can buy so much diesel for the price of an EV. Those are completely out of my price range and higer fuel prices aren't going to change that.
While I don’t know your use case or required vehicle type, there are many EV’s around $35K and tons on the used market for way less. There are tons of things to calculate but assuming a diesel vehicle is driven about 10K miles a year, you’ll spend around $2K/year on that, yea? Every year you own the vehicle you can deduct that from the purchase price to get the Net Present Value of the vehicle as home-charging rates are negligible at around maybe $100 a year. If you own it for 5 years, that vehicle could be considered to have cost you roughly $25K, net. 10 years would be $15K net. Then there’s the lower maintenance cost on EV’s to consider, as well. In the long term, EV’s aren’t as expensive as people think but you have to have the funds to cover the high purchase price at the start and plan to own the vehicle for a long time. As gas prices rise, these calculations only improve for EV’s and worsen for gas-powered vehicles. A helpful metric to use is that gas vehicles cost about $0.30/mile to run and EV’s, when charged at home, cost about $0.03/mile.
Diesel vehicles are the same price range as electric vehicles if not more expensive. The cost of ownership on diesels is way way more than an EV.
Its not just america paying more for oil. Countries world wide will experience this and future volatility. It could be a tipping point for some to take alternative energy and transportation more seriously.
The problem is Oil is bad but just you start using EV cause all other essential things come via transport methods which use Oil, so the price there increases a hell lot which affects everyone.
"... When oil prices go up, we make a lot of money." -The Guy, who OP obviously is.
this has a very bad side effect, as trump just removed oil sanctions from RUSSIA, now they are selling oil at a HIGH price to refund thier WAR EFFORT, which is bad news for ukraine. now they can afford to purchase more materials for drones, and missiles to use against ukraine.
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