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submitted 1 year ago by Five@slrpnk.net to c/comics

No Exit from September 7, 2022

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[-] HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago

They also reduce noise pollution

And reduce the propping of petrostates

And can be fueled, in theory, almost anywhere there are buildings (including your own home/work)

And that fuel can also, in theory, come from fully sustainable sources

They also help normalise the usage of renewable energy (this is a factor that shouldn't be overlooked, imo)

[-] skyspydude1@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

You don't even need buildings really, depending on your definition of a building. I've seen some really cool remote solar canopy setups, and they're not connected to any sort of infrastructure. Just a big umbrella with ~20 solar panels+micro inverters, and a couple of EVSEs on them. It's not DCFC, but it'd still get you 10-20MPH of charge when camping or something.

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[-] TIN@feddit.uk 33 points 1 year ago

Not sure I get the humour? Is it "don't fix anything unless you can fix everything?"

[-] McJonalds@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

It's meant to underline that cars in general aren't that healthy for the the environments we live in and our people, even if we switch completely to electric. I think it's to combat the notion that if everyone just buys an electric car, we'll all be fine.

[-] ciferecaNinjo@fedia.io 7 points 1 year ago

Bingo. In short, #fuckCars.

[-] FMT99@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

It's that electric cars are a figleaf. They don't really fix anything if we keep seeing them as our (almost) exclusive mode of transport.

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[-] envelope@kbin.social 25 points 1 year ago

The problem is America is built assuming the use of cars. Most Americans cannot simply trade their car for a bicycle, because they live too far away from goods and services. And even if they could ride the bike the 5 or 10 or 20 miles to the nearest grocery store, good luck getting little Timmy and Suzie to their soccer practice or scout meeting.

So at least an electric car stops the tailpipe emissions while we think about changing where people live and where their services are located.

[-] Facebones@reddthat.com 19 points 1 year ago

Everyone loves this "we can't just tear up infrastructure for public transit" argument but ignore that it's EXACTLY what we did for cars.

[-] snooggums@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago

Don't forget roads being a normal expense of governments but the expectation that mass transit pays for itself!

[-] envelope@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago

I'm referring to the millions of people who live where there is no possibility of public transit because the population density is way too low. I'm all in favor of making cities car-free zones, but outside of major population centers, the quickest way to help the environment is to switch to electric vehicles.

[-] snooggums@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago

If we can afford roads for everyone to drive on we can afford mass transit to replace it.

[-] netburnr@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Ahh yes let's run a bus on a route that has two riders.

[-] SkyeStarfall 3 points 1 year ago

Most cars are not used by people living out in nowhere, on a road that only two people use.

[-] snooggums@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

We could run a smaller vehicle if there are only ever two riders that need the service, or avoid having a route when there are too few people.

School districts can sort out how to move small numbers of children spread out in rural areas, the same can be done for any population. It also means that there might be some area that don't have enough mass for mass transit.

But right now we have a lot of places with plenty of mass that just refuse to believe that mass transit can be a solution because of decades of car company propaganda.

[-] OrnateLuna 3 points 1 year ago

Not to mention having public transit would most likely increase the population density of areas and thus making the public transport even more useful

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[-] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Even small towns should be designed without a car being essential unless you live on the outskirts/in the country.

[-] Facebones@reddthat.com 5 points 1 year ago

There's actually a few places that's been exploring public transit for rural areas.

The quickest way to help the environment is to lessen car dependence.

[-] envelope@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago

I think you and I are using different definitions of "quickest". Lessening car dependence in the US will take years. People can drive electric today.

[-] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

As this meme shows, driving electrically does very little in the grand scheme of things, especially if you burned fossil fuels to generate that energy. Theres also the infrastructure required for EVs which is prioritized in more urban areas than rural ones. Getting people to switch to electric now while tricking them into thinking it is completely green will do more to slow the shift away from car dependancy in my opinion.

[-] Facebones@reddthat.com 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

In those big money "glorified suburb white flight" ""rural"" areas maybe, otherwise it's laughable to think they can afford a functional electric car that won't die or need a prohibitively expensive battery replacement in two years OR find somewhere to charge in their bfe town an hour from home.

Meanwhile, if you're obsessed with actions doable "today," you could get a fleet of vehicles up and running tomorrow to offer transit services to people in need. 🤷

[-] ciferecaNinjo@fedia.io 1 points 1 year ago

the quickest way to help the environment is to switch to electric vehicles.

When you buy an EV, it’s not a replacement. Your old car is shipped to Africa where it runs for several more decades. So you’re just adding another harmful car to the planet.

The only wise move AFAICT is to convert your car to an EV & then perhaps use the engine to build a backup power generator for your home. But this won’t happen because suburban car drivers are addicted to convenience and nice new things. They are happy to have this false ecology excuse to buy a new car.

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[-] CatpainTypo@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago

So it’s better right? Just not perfect but there are no perfect solutions.

[-] darq@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago

There are no perfect solutions, but there are often better solutions. Electric is better than internal combustion private vehicles, sure! But avoiding investment in public transport in favour of electric vehicles is also just not helping to the extent that we need.

[-] ciferecaNinjo@fedia.io 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

EVs → nearly as shitty as cars with an exhaust (+ introduces lithium problems & power plant emissions). Not even close to perfect. Merely calling them “imperfect” misses the point. They’re not even good.

Public transport → significantly better than EVs, but still quite shitty on the environment.

Bicycles (e-bikes) → significantly better than public transport (but demand lithium).

Bicycles (push bikes) → nearly perfect.

Walking → perfect (if you don’t fart). But ⅓ the efficiency of cycling.

[-] nyoooom@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

That's the point, it's not perfect at all, but it's better, so let's take that solution for now and work on the next problem

Public transports can do a lot, but it can't do everything, same for bikes and walking. If we start rejecting every progress because it's not good enough then we won't ever progress.

[-] Steeve@lemmy.ca 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This is some im14andthisisdeep shit. None of these other problems will even matter if we don't work towards solving emissions. This is a disingenuous take from an edge lord loser.

Maybe there should be a community for lame biased political comics.

[-] SkyeStarfall 15 points 1 year ago

You know the solution to the other problems, such as massively investing in public transit, also significantly help reducing emissions, right?

[-] Steeve@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago

Oh, I must have missed the part in this anti electric vehicle comic that argues for significant increase in public infrastructure? Or is the author going to release another comic about how trains have brakes and hit animals/people too?

It's almost as if this comic is intentionally vague so that whoever the reader is can use it to confirm their bias.

[-] SkyeStarfall 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Or you can Google the artist and see that he is an activist that actively supports policies for expanding bicycle infrastructure. As well as making other comics criticizing the defunding of public transit.

Like, I don't know, to me this is an obvious reading of the comic.

[-] Steeve@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

to me this is an obvious reading of the comic.

Right...

It's almost as if this comic is intentionally vague so that whoever the reader is can use it to confirm their bias.

[-] SkyeStarfall 5 points 1 year ago
[-] Steeve@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago

Does it matter? Why do I need to know the lore behind this dude's political views to dislike this comic? It's misleading bullshit regardless of whether or not I agree with the point they failed to make.

[-] SkyeStarfall 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Bruh, let me repeat your original bloody comment

Oh, I must have missed the part in this anti electric vehicle comic that argues for significant increase in public infrastructure? Or is the author going to release another comic about how trains have brakes and hit animals/people too?

It's almost as if this comic is intentionally vague so that whoever the reader is can use it to confirm their bias.

You literally talked about the author here. And you said that the comic was intentionally vague.

Well, I'm saying it wasn't, and it is you that are forcing in your own, wrong, interpretation into it.

[-] Steeve@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Ever heard of the death of the author? The meaning of piece of work is not determined by the author's intention, but rather by the reader's interpretation.

Sure, maybe the author left it unintentionally vague, but all I see when I look at this is misleading anti EV rhetoric, not someone arguing for bicycle lanes and public transit. Any anti EV interpretation is correct, because that's all this comic is about.

My problem with the author isn't their political views, it's their misleading content.

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[-] AlternatePersonMan@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

I feel like a lot of these are still relevant even if primary travel is switched to trains or whatever.

[-] sepiroth154@feddit.nl 13 points 1 year ago

Except for that the environmental cost per head goes way down compared to cars.

[-] KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 year ago

It’ll still fall into the problem the comic fell into. No solution to assisted travel is perfect. Even horseback has a negative effect since they can trample humans and animals, and oft traveled paths would still be plant free.

Point being, don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.

[-] ciferecaNinjo@fedia.io 5 points 1 year ago

Point being, don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.

What are you calling good? If you’re worried about horses trampling animals (incl. human), that would sound like letting perfect be the enemy of good.

Cycling is nearly perfect by comparison and I’m happy to make EVs and public transport the enemy of cycling.

[-] kick_out_the_jams@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Cycling is nearly perfect by comparison and I’m happy to make EVs and public transport the enemy of cycling.

That's exactly what he means, you don't really want to treat things less than perfect as enemies.
It's not useful modelling/labeling and you just create the notion that you can not be appealed to.

[-] ciferecaNinjo@fedia.io 3 points 1 year ago

That's exactly what he means, you don't really want to treat things that less than perfect as enemies.

It depends on how far from perfect they are. It’s reckless and socially irresponsible to not treat EVs as enemies.

It's not really useful modelling/labeling and you just reinforce the notion that you can never be pleased.

Get asses on bicycle seats, and I am pleased.

[-] KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago

Are bikes made from locally sourced materials, which are environmentally friendly to collect?

[-] ciferecaNinjo@fedia.io 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If you mean to ask does globalization exist, of course.

Given that globalization exists, bicycles are the winner in this context as well because there are many more manufacturers and bikes are orders of magnitude less complex (thus fewer components to import). Unlike cars which are complex enough to have components that are big and/or heavy shipped all over the globe. Bicycles are made on your continent with minimal shipping weight. The simplicity of bikes also means fewer components that can break.

The most significant problem with bicycles is the Chinese are making copious bikes with non-standard low-quality components not built to last. Cheap Chinese-made bikes have a shorter lifetime than others and the components have compatibility problems so the whole bike gets scrapped.

These issues are not inherent in bicycles themselves. Buy a sustainable domestically made bike with standard parts, not a cheap €100 Chinese import.

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[-] AlternatePersonMan@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Fair point. Every time I sit through rush hour traffic, I think "thousands of people are all headed in the same direction every day, and we can't build a more optimal system?"

[-] FMT99@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Yes, except many orders of magnitude smaller. Unlike EVs.

[-] PatFussy@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

This reached out so far it came back to being funny

[-] ciferecaNinjo@fedia.io 2 points 1 year ago

Just love how the dead bodies under car are considered mere “imperfections” by car-advocates in this thread.

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this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2023
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