Damn man maybe the PC industry should've considered making even one single actually good laptop
Well good, maybe it'll incentivise y'all fuckers to sell actually usable machine instead of Bordeline e-waste Celerons with a 4GB of RAM in the ultra-budget segment
Borderline?
Welded to the motherboard
Honestly, I’m just surprised this is the first time someone has dared to put a phone SOC in a laptop chassis.
It seemed kind of obvious to me that a laptop experience on phone hardware (but like… with a bigger screen, keyboard and mouse/trackpad) was sort of perfect for most use cases. I just assumed that it would come in the form of a phone docked in to a hollowed out laptop. The core issue was just that the software was awful with such a set up. Apple just kind of bypassed that by having their whole OS and everything on it switch over to ARM and just running a non-mobile OS on a phone SOC.
It seems like Google is kind of edging that way by merging chrome OS in to android. And windows was maybe flailing that direction with windows on arm… but… I think that was mostly just them trying to copy Apple without really thinking to hard about it.
Lol, this is far from the first time this has been done. Gotta give it to Apple marketing, they can still get away with "inventing" 5 year old technology in front of the gullible crowds.
Honestly, I’m just surprised this is the first time someone has dared to put a phone SOC in a laptop chassis.
I'm probably missing something fundamental, but isn't this just a Chromebook?
There are some Snapdragon laptops but they're not exactly the same as the snapdragon phone SoCs and they tend to be expensive
Apple was the only one with the vertical to pull it off
Maybe Asus should invest more into linux and start shipping it on their laptops by default? Maybe add an improved software compatibility layer for windows apps to get more people in?
He pointed to the laptop's 8GB of "unified memory," or what amounts to its RAM, and how customers can't upgrade it.
Yes, because Asus laptops all have non-soldered RAM...
A few do have non-soldered RAM, the most expensive workstation laptop and a couple of gaming laptops; all of which are >$2000.
Yes, because Asus laptops all have non-soldered RAM…
I think what that poster was communicating is that shipping a laptop with 8GB of RAM would be okay if it was socketed (allowing for an upgrade by the user) or if the shipped unit with soldered RAM was greater than 8GB (16GB?, 32GB?,64GB? soldered).
Fair enough. Although Asus sells at least one laptop with 8 GB of soldered RAM, too.
Granted, it's "only" a Chromebook, but still.
Soldered RAM is almost always a bad thing, no matter the size. Maybe when it's the most the mainboard can support it's not too bad but even then you're out of luck if it ends up dying.
As far as I understand Apple is partly doing it because of the higher memory bandwidth, which is necessary for the way macOS manages memory. I still don't like it but at least they're doing it for a reason.
Fair enough. Although Asus sells at least one laptop with 8 GB of soldered RAM, too.
Granted, it’s “only” a Chromebook, but still.
Chromebooks with low RAM are fine for many use cases. I've got a chromebook with only 4GB of RAM and its perfectly fine for web browsing or watching streaming which is the only things I use it for.
Soldered RAM is almost always a bad thing, no matter the size. Maybe when it’s the most the mainboard can support it’s not too bad but even then you’re out of luck if it ends up dying.
I used to think that too, but then I realized that the way I use computers (and it sounds like you do too) is to keep a unit a long time, take care of it, and use it to its limits (and perhaps beyond). There are millions of users that don't do what we do. They may be young kids that end up breaking the unit before 2 years pass. They may be a fashionista that has to change out their unit when the new fall color comes out (so they may not even own it a year). They may be an older person that only uses it to check facebook to keep up with their kids.
In all of these cases soldered RAM is just fine because the user will never reach the point they need to upgrade it. What they get in return for this is cost savings and likely a smaller (thinner?) unit, that is probably a bit more structurally sound (because it doesn't have to have a door or clips to have the RAM sockets accessible.
For users like you and me, soldered RAM is a bad thing. For most common users they don't care. They don't even know what soldered RAM is.
For most common users they don’t care. They don’t even know what soldered RAM is.
They should, because when it's time to sell the laptop one with soldered RAM is gonna be worth a lot less (at least to me).
Chromebooks with low RAM are fine for many use cases. I’ve got a chromebook with only 4GB of RAM and its perfectly fine for web browsing or watching streaming which is the only things I use it for.
Fair, but there's still the potential of it becoming a paperweight if the RAM chips give out or Google forces AI shit into ChromeOS.
For most common users they don’t care. They don’t even know what soldered RAM is.
They should, because when it’s time to sell the laptop one with soldered RAM is gonna be worth a lot less (at least to me).
There's an irony that the most valuable laptops for resale right now are the ones with soldered RAM. Why? Because the socketed units have their RAM stripped for resale separately from the unit. Even corporate fleets are doing this now and the bulk resale laptops are arriving without SSDs and RAM. Which units still have both? Units where both are soldered and not removable.
Chromebooks with low RAM are fine for many use cases. I’ve got a chromebook with only 4GB of RAM and its perfectly fine for web browsing or watching streaming which is the only things I use it for.
Fair, but there’s still the potential of it becoming a paperweight if the RAM chips give out or Google forces AI shit into ChromeOS.
These sell for $149 USD brand new. A general user would not spend a second of time troubleshooting a failed one. They'd just buy whatever the current model is for $149 which would probably be 4x as fast and with more storage anyway, then pitch the old one in ewaste.
I'm suspicious.
I'm seeing social media FLOODED with Neo content. Definitely not organic.
Tinfoil hat aside, that could also be due to how disruptive it is in the tech world.
Maybe it's just a literal bomb to everyone involved in decision making and now making the waves in the news.
It could be.
But I don't see any other PC/laptop reviews by this author. He writes mostly about cybersecurity. And his Neo articles seem a bit...biased. Compare to his other articles, which are well-researched. Example:
https://www.csoonline.com/article/563017/wannacry-explained-a-perfect-ransomware-storm.html
My guess is either someone is posting articles in his name, or he's taking a free Neo in return for a positive review.
Maybe just a bit of both.
My guess is either someone is posting articles in his name, or he's taking a free Neo in return for a positive review.
And a bit of both for that as well.
It's also quite unexpected, given that it's Apple, and they've traditionally made more expensive machines, with worse hardware. In my country, for example, it is nearly unheard of for a new Apple computer to cost less than four digits/US$800+.
Particularly at a time when it's more typical to hear of new computer prices going up instead, due to shortages.
I was very surprised to hear how reasonable (to some degree lol) the iPhone and macbook was priced.
Very hard to deny that they are very interestingly priced.
Dude, the difference between you and Apple is Windows 11. They don't have a crappy copilot or Edge hoarding 4GB in the background just to show the weather.
That's a big difference but not all. The sub-$1000 ultrabook sector has SO MUCH garbage, like Intel Celerons that stutter when you scroll down a web page designed in 2022+. Manufacturers are happy because they can sell rubbish and uncle John with no idea about computers will say "I want a laptop with 1 TB so it's faster, and it must have free office 365 and an antivirus"...
So when someone puts a phone processor in a laptop and builds a chassis that isn't a $5 extruded plastic shell, they panic because it still manages to be better in both benchmarks and real world use despite the paltry amount of RAM.
Exactly. They should start installing Linux Mint and call it a day.
Fuck Microsoft.
This is as believable as "air pods are for rich people"
That price still sounds like a ripoff for what you apparently get. Such is Apple.
Not too sure on that. In single-thread cinebench it beats high-end desktop CPUs from AMD and Intel. Now the Ryzen 9950X3D will absolutely DEMOLISH it in anything that can use all of its threads, but it literally lost in single-thread to Apple's phone SoC. And that CPU costs the same as the entire Macbook Neo.
You can spend 3k on a gaming laptop with a Core Ultra 9 288V right now that is in every other way better performing than the Macbook Neo, but still loses heavily in single thread performance.
Now I'm not saying this makes it the best deal ever, it's literally just one metric I'm talking about, but for the average user, single thread performance means the computer is more responsive overall, and a lot of applications aren't optimized to make proper use of 6 threads, let alone 16 or 32, so it might feel snappier than a significantly more expensive laptop from another manufacturer, especially if it's running Windows.
Shilling much lately?
It does seem still very impressive against other top laptop CPUs.
Although I heard from Jeff Geerling's review that the neo often noticably throttles after a few seconds.
It also has pretty terrible IO.
I think the biggest attraction is the build quality, screen, etc. Most cheap laptops seem to cheap out on those a lot in my experience, and Apple did not. If you're not stressing the CPU or GPU, it'll still feel almost as high quality as any other MacBook.
For reference
The perfect time for a relatively cheap Apple laptop when Microsoft is forcing people to buy new hardware just to use their latest version of their operating system. I wonder what the percentage of Microsoft folks who go to the MacBook will be. I wonder what the percentage of users who go the UNIX/Linux route would be. I'm not an apple fan myself so would go linux, but a good business move from Apple though.
I can't speak for Macs. But in the Linux world, 8GB is fine. In Windows it's awful because of all that bloat. I'm guessing Macs fair better for OS efficiency.
In Europe the price it's not that appealing, it's €699 and because they "care about environment 😉" the €99 charger (which is almost mandatory for a new user) is sold separately.
At €798 for 256g/8g it's not as good as the $599 they're selling in the US.
If someone is price sensitive, can get 3-4 refurbished ThinkPads with better specs for that price and run Linux much easier without hoping on some volunteer wizard to reverse engineer the proprietary components
because they “care about environment 😉” the €99 charger (which is almost mandatory for a new user) is sold separately.
It's because they're required by law to offer it without a power supply. See Article 3a, section 10.
Apple's first-party power supply isn't "almost mandatory", and doesn't cost 99€. The 20W model shipped with the Macbook Neo in other markets costs 25€ on Apple's German store, and a generic 8€ power supply from Amazon will work. The power supply most people already have for their phone will usually also work.
He also described the MacBook Neo as a “content consumption” device, similar to an iPad. “This is different from the use case of a mainstream notebook," which can handle more compute-intensive tasks, Hsu said.
I don't know what Windows have out of the box but is MacBook really content consuming device ?
Free build in OS offline office apps Word = Pages, Excel=Numbers, Power Point = Keynote, Notes, Calendar, Email, Reminders, PDF viewer = Preview, movie editor = iMovie, Journal, Password Manager = Keychain, Maps app ( yes you can download parts of map to use offline), Garage band where you can connect your midi devices and record them.
It has a mobile SOC which thermally throttles pretty aggressively, memory capped at 8gb, and a pair of confusing USB-C ports one of which is limited to USB 2.0 speeds.
It's actually a bit faster than the M1 and most M1 owners are still not upgrading because there's no real need. So you could reasonably do productivity things that aren't heavy ass 3D modelling or video editing. But with 8 gigs of RAM it'll swap a lot, wearing down the SSD eventually.
Am I the only one even a little happy to see the head of a major company mentioning upgradability as an appeal for customers?
Please do stick with two unsoldered SODIMM slots for your laptops Asus.
He knows his market. As others have mentioned, most casual users don't need or care about that. Personal computing has become much more niche.
Just make some decent SD Elite laptops, preferably with Linux OOTB, I've been waiting...
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