46
locking procedure check (sh.itjust.works)
submitted 11 months ago by Habahnow@sh.itjust.works to c/bikecommuting@lemmy.ml
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I just recently got into using a bike for commuting and I was wondering if this is a good way to secure my bike? I know, previously, people would recommend only needing to lock the back tire to a solid object, but I’ve seen videos of people easily cutting the back tire, breaking it and taking the frame/front tire. My method of locking is sort of similar, except I do lock around the splash guard. If this isn’t very secure, I’d have to get a longer ulock or chain, because there doesn’t appear to be an easy way for me to lock around the back tire, frame and solid object with my current ulock. Any suggestions are appreciated.

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[-] gasgiant@lemmy.ml 19 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

The front wheel is correct but I would move the D lock at the back. It is only round a wheel and a mudguard.

Your current method means the frame could be stolen by undoing the wheel bolts and lifting away. Can't see exactly how the mudguards are fixed and they might complicate it a bit but not much.

I'd suggest low on the seat tube just above the chain ring and then loop the cable round the front and back wheels and into the D lock.

Edit: forgot. Don't bother looping up through the seat like that. If they want to steal that with the cable there it's only two bolts. It's only one without the cable but if you were still worried you can get security seatpost bolts

[-] merde@sh.itjust.works 6 points 11 months ago

they can't just undo some bolts and lift away, they have to cut either the wheel or the lock itself.

it's a safe method recommended by sheldon brown

[-] gasgiant@lemmy.ml 3 points 11 months ago

Should have said, unbolt and damage the wheels then lift away.

Which could be done with a spanner and by standing on the back wheel to squash it to an oval and push it through.

So then you're buying a hardened D lock and making it as strong as an aluminium and rubber wheel. If they have very basic cutters they are through both wheels in seconds and can lift the bike away. Leaving the lock intact on the bar.

No point in having a hardened lock if it is going to be used like this. Just buy a bargain basement long cable lock as all the benefits of the hardened D are being removed.

[-] merde@sh.itjust.works 3 points 11 months ago

very basic cutters that cut through both wheels in seconds

i would like to see that.

Are you writing from some experience or is this theoritical?

[-] gasgiant@lemmy.ml 2 points 11 months ago

Never seen anyone actually doing it but have seen the results. If they are serious bike thieves they will take as much as they can as quickly as they can.

They'll make a quick assessment. I can get all of a bike apart from the wheels quickly with very little noise vs spending the time dealing with the hardened lock. They will go for the quicker and quieter option.

[-] sping@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Oh come on, it would be fantastically difficult to crush the wheel in situ and get it though the frame triangle and you'd end up with a fucked up partial bike that wasn't that good to start with.

Locking the rear when in the frame triangle is fully secure.

[-] gasgiant@lemmy.ml 2 points 11 months ago

Why would it be fantastically difficult? Wheels aren't that strong.

The hardened lock actually helps the thieves to damage the wheel. All they need to do is find a way to get the lock to distort the wheel a little bit. E.g by standing on the lock or pulling the bike away from the rail. All the force is going through that part of the wheel.

Once they've distorted they can just stand on the wheel to crush it.

It certainly isn't fully secure if they could steal all of the bike apart from the wheels with only a spanner.

Also saying they'd only end up with a partial bike shows you don't understand bike theft at all. They will take as much as they can as quickly and easily as they can. If you give them 75% of a bike without having to deal with the hardened lock they will take that opportunity. If it's the most attractive one there. The goal is to make the time and noise of getting anything from your bike as unappealing as possible.

Although if they target it to no bike is fully secure. I've seen the bike rail cut, D locks in pieces and most bizarrely a frame and two wheels left attached to a rack with every other bolt and component removed from the bike. That was totally baffling because the tools and time needed to do that seemed enormous to do insitu.

Next time I see a crushed wheel attached to a post I'll take a picture.

[-] DrMango@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

Are you arguing on a theoretical basis or a practical basis because frankly, yes, with "the right tools and information" any bike can be stolen in theory, but in practice OP's lock job is plenty sufficient to deter theft.

I gotta ask: do you even take your bike out or do you leave it in the underground bunker to prevent theft?

[-] gasgiant@lemmy.ml 1 points 11 months ago

I do take it out but the first rule of bike security is make sure you're doing more than the next bike next to you.

If I was more cynical I would want other people locking their bikes up badly because it makes them more of a target than mine. However I'd rather everyone made it as difficult as possible for these f***ers.

[-] sping@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 11 months ago

You are seriously arguing that getting the wheel through the frame without seriously damaging the frame is easier than taking an angle grinder to a lock? The discussion isn't about what is theoretically possible, it's about what will actually be done by a thief and whether it's worthwhile to them.

saying they’d only end up with a partial bike shows you don’t understand bike theft at all.

Are you sure it's not you who doesn't understand? I've spoken to local cops on the topic, and most bike theft is opportunistic, and the key requirement is making quick money. Expensive bikes are a particular sort of specialist target that are in some ways more difficult to sell on, and are more likely to be actively pursued and traced by the former owner and law enforcement. Basic inexpensive complete bikes are a high theft target because they sell almost immediately, no questions asked, for enough money to get some drugs right now.

The chop shops taking partial bikes and parting them out are the exception, not the rule. Most thefts are an easy-to get whole bike that is ridden away. All bike security is partial and aims to just make your bike harder to steal than other options. This is a basic bike with cheap parts that would not be very appealing to part-out.

[-] gasgiant@lemmy.ml 1 points 11 months ago

You seem to be a bit confused. You say most bike theft is opportunistic. Securing through the wheel only decreases the tools and effort needed to get something of value. Increasing the chance of opportunistic theft.

Never said it was easier than an angle grinder to the lock. That requires tools and a lot more noise. If they are going to do that they will, but put the thieves in the situation where they have to make as much noise and do as much work as possible.

If they can just trash a wheel and make off with most of a bike quickly and with little noise that suits the opportunistic thief more than anyone else.

If they have an angle grinder and are going to attack the D lock with it. Then it almost doesn't matter what you do. They will get the bike. All you can do is make it a harder and less appealing target than the next bike they see.

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[-] DrMoronicAcid@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

I second the part about not bothering looping up through the saddle. It would also give a bit more play with the cable allowing the D lock to be moved to a better position.

[-] originalfrozenbanana@lemm.ee 3 points 11 months ago

I was always taught to lock around the wheel, frame, and whatever you’re locking to. Just two points leaves something vulnerable

[-] gasgiant@lemmy.ml 1 points 11 months ago

Yep this is how to do it.

[-] Habahnow@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 months ago

I'm sorry I don't understand, why is looping the cable through the seat a bad idea? Cable lock isn't much, I agree, but i figure it at least stops someone with just an Alan wrench from taking my seat post, and would also need a cable lock cutter.

[-] gasgiant@lemmy.ml 3 points 11 months ago

They don't need cable cutters. They can just undo one of the bolts holding the seat together, pull the cable out and then undo the seat post bolt to remove the seat. So all you've really done is have them undo an extra bolt. No need to cut the cable.

Keep more cable for securing both wheels and D lock frame to post. If they're really bothered about the seat get a security seat post bolt.

[-] Habahnow@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 months ago

Ah I see what you mean now.thanks for the info!

[-] jkmooney@kbin.social 9 points 11 months ago

As others have said, U-lock through frame and rear wheel if possible. Otherwise not bad. I've also taken to using a motion detector alarm on my last bike packing trip.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MFBV7TW?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

[-] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I can vouch for those alarms! I've got one on all of my bikes an e-scooters. If you've got a rear rack, you can mount it to the underside of the top rack deck, so it's harder to disable. But the alarm + 1 or two locks is a really good option to keep things secure.

[-] FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

*vouch

[-] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 2 points 11 months ago

Thank you. Corrected 🤗

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago

Lot of good advice here, but I'll add that no lock is perfect. If someone wants your bike, they will take it. This is good enough to keep someone from walking away with your bike, but anyone with tools can break any bike lock on the market.

Just keep that in mind when you're spending time and energy, and especially money, protecting your bike. It's a very nice bike, but it is replaceable if the worst should happen.

[-] Habahnow@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 months ago

Yeah I'm hoping having locked like this when I go places is enough of a deterent to leave it alone.

[-] Grass@sh.itjust.works 7 points 11 months ago

That's a classy bike. Where I live you can't even leave your bike fully locked up though. I can bring my bike inside at my current job but I would drive otherwise.

Cordless angle grinder and a CD case of cutting wheels and the vast majority of locks can be cut like butter. Aluminum needs a different cutting disc and can explode the ones for steel. When considering the lock that has multiple metals to contaminate cutting wheels for an outdoor project, we tried cutting stacks of aluminum and stainless. It's an improvement but if someone has discs to swap for and familiarity with the tools and metals I'd say it could still be done under 15 minutes. If they are just druggies the mixed metal one could gum up the discs and take maybe up to 45 min if they don't realize they have the wrong tool config.

Hopefully your area doesn't have overly capable assholes though. Or maybe cops that are better than what we have.

[-] Habahnow@sh.itjust.works 3 points 11 months ago

Thank you. I'm definitely not certain how bad thieves are in downtown LA. Overnight it's locked up inside with limited access, but if I want to take my bike somewhere, I'd hope i can leave it locked up for a while, and having it in a populated place locked like this would be a sufficient enough deterent.

[-] Bizarroland@kbin.social 7 points 11 months ago

This whole post is making me think of the hidden 6th song on The decemberists album 5 songs EP.

It starts off with, "I'm really sorry steven, your bicycles been stolen..."

[-] me_ow@feddit.nl 7 points 11 months ago

I don't know what bike theft is like in your area, but here in nl all bikes have a rear lock that's mounted to the bike like these to keep the rear wheel secure. In the big cities people also usually attach their bikes to solid objects using a chain through the frame and the front wheel. I would be more concerned about your lock- such string locks are very easy to cut through with a bolt cutter. My recommendation would be to get a strong chain link lock with a plastic sleeve. I'm sure you can find such locks online where you live.

[-] gabbagabbahey@lemm.ee 6 points 11 months ago

Looks good 👍

[-] merde@sh.itjust.works 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

times have changed but sheldon's pages are still a relatively good source for bicycles

that thin cable is better than nothing and i too use it sometimes but you shouldn't trust it.

security of your bike depends on where you lock it more than how you lock it. Most of the time a uLock around the rear wheel through the frame is enough (even in paris!)

[-] frostbiker@lemmy.ca 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

If the lock is long enough to put the wheel through it, it is usually also possible to include one of the seat stays as well.

Cutting both the wheel and a seat stay is possible, of course, but it severely devaluates the bicycle and also makes it unrideable so the thief can't use it to escape.

Locking the bike through the seat tube is not as good because the bike is still rideable after cutting through it.

[-] Habahnow@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 months ago

Sadly the ulock doesn't fit through the seat stay because the seat stays are wider than the the rear tire. I wanted to lock through there but it's very difficult/impossible. Do you suggest I get a longer ulock?

[-] frostbiker@lemmy.ca 3 points 11 months ago

I think what you are doing is fine. No need for a different lock. Your current setup is better than most.

[-] Habahnow@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 months ago

Thanks for the advice!

[-] Habahnow@sh.itjust.works 5 points 11 months ago

Some additonal images:

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[-] sping@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Nicely done. You're probably aware of the thin cable will only stop opportunist thieves, but it's still worthwhile if they are a local problem.

Pay no attention to the people telling you you should have locked the frame. As you probably know locking the wheel like that has locked the frame, and the only way to get the frame would be to destroy the rear wheel the drastically reduces the value to a thief. They'd angle grind the lock before they'd cut that wheel.

[-] cramola@sh.itjust.works 3 points 11 months ago

As has been mentioned, use your U lock to lock the frame. If you can include the wheel and the frame that's best but often needs a big U lock.

I recommend purchasing wheel security devices such as pinheads or pitlocks and then you don't really need to worry about locking your wheels so much

[-] Habahnow@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 months ago

Il be thinking about buying some pinheads, thank you

[-] FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Lock that U lock around the frame of your bike, otherwise pretty good: They do sell bigger U locks, so it would be worth investing in one.

[-] sping@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

As small as is usable is better with U locks. Larger ones can be jacked open easily. Locking the wheel like this means the frame is secure. It's topologically impossible to get the frame without destroying the rear wheel.

[-] FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

They aren't better if you can't fit them around your frame lol, that said, yeah it's ideal to use one they can't get a jack under.

[-] sping@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 11 months ago

But there is no practical benefit to including the frame because locking the wheel like this also secures the frame.

[-] FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

How does that secure the frame?

[-] sping@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 11 months ago

The wheel is much bigger than the triangle in the frame you would have to pull it through. You would have to cut the rim and tire, or theoretically bend and collapse the wheel, to get the frame away. And then you have a frame without a wheel to try to sell.

Before a thief destroys its value like that, they would get an angle grinder to the lock. Or more likely, move on and look for another bike.

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this post was submitted on 29 Sep 2023
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