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Upwards mobility (lemmy.dbzer0.com)
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[-] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 239 points 4 days ago

Well at least harming Amazon is a net good

[-] BenjiRenji@feddit.org 74 points 4 days ago

Imagine getting paid to do it.

[-] wheezy@lemmy.ml 15 points 4 days ago

Was in this position at Microsoft for two years. I already hated them because I ended up working for them after they acquired my smaller company. Pennies on the dollar, massive layoffs beforehand, fired literally all the most important people (which is why I wasn't fired, I really am just trying to collect a paycheck and do nothing more).

Anyway, ended up basically being placed in a middleman position that I quickly realized didn't need to exist. Basically, spent two years slowing down communication between my companies team and the existing Microsoft team. Literally, I just kept the two teams from directly communicating and going through me for everything. I think I wrote less than 1000 lines of code during that time.

And no, I didn't like my team either from the original company. They were all new hires prior to us being acquired and they fired everyone on my team that had worked on the project for nearly 5 years. So, didn't feel bad about slowing them down either.

Basically a shitty startup that milked it's employees with hopes of Microsoft becoming our customer. Encouraging people to exercise their options only to sell the company for pennies on the dollar and fire them.

Got through two years of slowing down an awful genocide supporting company before the layoffs finally got me.

Was a good run.

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[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 149 points 4 days ago

And this is why you rarely find decent people with good income in todays economy.

[-] DupaCycki@lemmy.world 86 points 4 days ago

You write clean code and you get replaced in 2 months, because everyone can work on that code.

You write an unreadable mess that no raise will convince other employees to work on and suddenly your holiday requests don't get declined anymore.

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[-] JackbyDev@programming.dev 59 points 4 days ago

I fought for getting a 4/5 rating at an old job and gave lots of examples. Their argument was that I didn't deserve it because those were just expected. I pointed out my work compared to others in my team and was told that it compares across the company, not the team. I kept causing a fuss about it because I was so angry about it and finally my manager said something about the bonuses has already been communicated and people would be angry to get less. I was confused because I didn't want more money, I was just offended they said I was performing on average when I was going above and beyond every day. It was also really embarrassing to me. If they'd just said the rating doesn't affect anything except your bonus I wouldn't have even cared.

The whole thing is all BS.

[-] Natanael@infosec.pub 23 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

finally my manager said something about the bonuses has already been communicated and people would be angry to get less

That's because they have a fixed budget and the proportions are tied to evaluated performance tiers, increasing your rating would contractually require them to compensate you more from the same pool of money

[-] Feyd@programming.dev 21 points 4 days ago

You're falling for the "we've constructed this machine to tell you no so you can't argue with us" ploy

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[-] A_norny_mousse@feddit.org 93 points 4 days ago

Sounds like whoever decides these things knows nothing about IT.

[-] rozodru@pie.andmc.ca 137 points 4 days ago

they don't. I mean for example Amazon puts all new hires on "on call" status for like a week every month. the LAST people I would want working On Call and waking up at 2am to try and solve something are fresh grad hires. You can actually watch videos on youtube of new grad amazon hires doing this, they actually document themselves, and the vast majority of them are "well it's 1am and I just got a call...I'm going to try and fix this ticket but really I have no idea what I'm doing" annnnnd generally nothing gets fixed or they break it worse. So they end up being sleep deprived, going into the office the next day and sleeping at whatever workstation they can find available and it leaves you wondering "what's the point?"

I personally am of the belief that being on call for stuff like this is pointless when you're world wide and could literally just transition the stuff to a different team in some other part of the world but I guess Amazon treats it as a sort of initiation process or whatever.

[-] zwerg@feddit.org 76 points 4 days ago

Its not an initiation, it's hazing

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[-] CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de 43 points 4 days ago

Technical people don’t understand the business, you see.

[-] uncouple9831@lemmy.zip 30 points 4 days ago

You fuck over poor people for money, it's not complicated

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[-] criss_cross@lemmy.world 58 points 4 days ago

Yeah this was my experience when I worked there. Driving goals and doing good work isn’t enough. You need a fancy project to demonstrate “expanded scope” otherwise your promo would get rejected.

Sometimes things worked the way you wanted and people got promoted doing their normal job. A lot of times though there were a lot of fancy projects built to get people promos that suckers got stuck with the bill on.

This ain’t a case of one dude scamming the system as much as it is institutional rot from red tape.

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[-] somegeek@programming.dev 23 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I say this is only ok because he did that in amazon. Fuck amazon

If he did that in a medium-or-less sized company that would be a really shitty move.

[-] julietOscarEcho@sh.itjust.works 17 points 3 days ago

In a small company noone would try to label you "l5" or "l6" and probably an actual human would make your comp decision. You take the byzantine incentive structure away and people just try to do a good job.

[-] RagingRobot@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago

The problem is the large companies like Amazon buy all the small ones and put these people in charge lol

[-] fubarx@lemmy.world 41 points 4 days ago

The whole thing is pegging my BS meter, including letting an L5 deploy without a code and architecture review, TC, and the fact that they're posting this and claiming they're still there.

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[-] dukemirage@lemmy.world 68 points 4 days ago

What's L5 and L6? What's TC?

[-] slate@sh.itjust.works 98 points 4 days ago

L5 and L6 is a label for career progression, like getting promoted from staff to senior, just with different words. TC is total compensation.

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[-] criss_cross@lemmy.world 20 points 4 days ago

At Amazon you have the following levels

L4 - Junior. A new grad. Expected to be promoted within 2 years or let go

L5 - Mid engineer. Very wide band. Encapsulates anything between a level 2 engineer and a team lead at other companies. Can be expected to lead individual teams at times. Is considered a “terminal” position (there’s no expectation of a promotion past here)

L6 - Senior. Has the scope of what a Staff engineer would at other companies where you’re not only concerned with your team but others in the department. I think like 10% of engineers ever hit L6

L7 - Principal Engineer. You have like 1-2 of these per department. These are more like architects at other companies. About 1-2% of engineers ever hit this band.

L8 and beyond are for fancy hires and shit. Very few if anyone ever works their way up to those bands.

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[-] Digit@lemmy.wtf 7 points 3 days ago

So that's why we suffer enshitification.

Those who succumb to the Socio-Economic and climb it so.

"Upwards mobility".

[-] TomMasz@piefed.social 50 points 4 days ago

You get the behavior your incentives encourage, whether you realize what those behaviors are or not.

[-] planish@sh.itjust.works 48 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

[ In lieu of a comment, please see "Bullshit Jobs", by David Graeber, which is incorporated here by reference. ]

[-] AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net 52 points 4 days ago

Something I find cool about this book is that it's so well known that people who haven't even read it will often gesture towards it to make a point. It reminds me of how "enshittification" caught on because so many people were glad to have a word for what they'd been experiencing.

It's a useful phrase to have. Recently a friend was lamenting that they'd had a string of bad jobs, and they were struggling to articulate what it was that they wanted from a job. They were at risk of blaming themselves for the fact that they'd struggled to find anything that wasn't soul sucking, because they were beginning to doubt whether finding a fulfilling job was even possible.

They were grasping at straws trying to explain what would make them feel fulfilled, and I cut in to say "all of this is basically just saying you don't care what job you have, as long as it's a non-bullshit job". They pondered it for a moment before emphatically agreeing with me. It was entertaining to see their entire demeanour change so quickly: from being demoralised and shrinking to being defiant and righteously angry at the fucked up world that turns good jobs into bullshit. Having vocabulary to describe your experiences can be pretty magical sometimes

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[-] VirtuePacket@lemmy.zip 38 points 4 days ago

Sounds about right. There is no longer any incentive to focus on maintenance and incremental improvement (the stuff that actually keeps the lights on and the revenue flowing). It's all about the new and shiny--even when it results in regression.

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[-] zwerg@feddit.org 56 points 4 days ago

Is that why they are gradually replacing the bad AWS Console UI with something 10x worse?

[-] addie@feddit.uk 41 points 4 days ago

Apart from being slow, having discoverability issues, not being able combine filters and actions so that you frequently need to fall back to shell scripts for basic functionality, it being a complete PITA to compare things between accounts / regions, advanced functionality requiring you to directly edit JSON files, things randomly failing and the error message being carefully hidden away, the poor audit trail functionality to see who-changed-what, and the fact that putting anything complex together means spinning so many plates that Terraform'ing all your infrastructure looks like the easy way; I'll have you know there's nothing wrong with the AWS Console UI.

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[-] Krauerking@lemy.lol 8 points 3 days ago

I am so tired of worse products in the name of upgraded products that are literally worse in every way but a bunch of buzzwords and in groups bragging at the top while not knowing anything at all about programs or even the product at all but just seem to be there because they drink with the CTO.

Ugh. The twiddling thumb era of trying to look busy by dismantling the old machines for parts.

[-] 4grams@awful.systems 48 points 4 days ago

Yep, this is the culture I keep running head first into as I try to level up my career.

[-] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 27 points 4 days ago

Same. Generally speaking our company is pretty healthy, but we're still stuck in this really stupid leveling system where advancement is tied to greenfield development and I've been doing maintenance and compliance work for the last five years.

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[-] chunes@lemmy.world 28 points 4 days ago

I apologize for bashing Java so hard in the past. I wish everyone wrote everything in Java these days. Digital life would be so much better.

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[-] kubofhromoslav@lemmy.world 51 points 4 days ago

Perverse incentives combined with underskilled management 😐

[-] falseWhite@lemmy.world 57 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Not really. That's just how it works at mega tech corporations. He should try working for a startup.

[-] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 40 points 4 days ago

This almost makes me appreciate my current job, where most stuff has been in place for years and any changes take forever.

It's kind of a bummer that it's going to take like six months to add a linter, and they only started using git like last year.

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[-] anugeshtu@lemmy.world 18 points 4 days ago

The one thing which COULD justify it, is technical debt. A programming language not supported anymore or in short-term/mid-term, bus factor, too much knowledge transfer, etc. But yeah, lots of times it's "business as usual" just for "progress" and fancy buzzwords.

[-] Sprocketfree@sh.itjust.works 16 points 4 days ago

Java is still supported... Or did I miss the memo?

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[-] sping@lemmy.sdf.org 13 points 3 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Golang is technical debt in language form. A language that gained limited and now sagging popularity, for good reason. I hate to work in Java but hate golang more. It's the lightsaber of programming languages. I've got shit to do, give me blasters and all the rest. And I'm not interested in wanking myself off about how I did it all with channels. [edited for typo/clarity]

[-] fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works 11 points 3 days ago

Honestly probably got the project to more maintainable state. Probably didn't need the rewrite to do it in a new lang to do it (the real killer hear it sounds like).

Those monoliths suck on the operations side, and even worse when it's a corpse holding up the foundation to other projects that actually need it to change. Need to scale? good luck that decades old pizza box we call a server isn't supported anymore. Oh of course we can spend millions virtualizing dead hardware to keep it running the same.

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[-] Berserker@programming.dev 15 points 4 days ago

Flawless victory.

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this post was submitted on 09 Dec 2025
1239 points (100.0% liked)

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