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[-] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 174 points 5 days ago

European kids are taught that racism is bad but not how real, systemic, subtle racism actually looks. We are taught that slavery and hitler is bad, so our bar for what is acceptable is very low.

This is also why Europeans will get offended if you point out something subtly racist they did/said. They think you're straight-up comparing them to Hitler and the KKK.

[-] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 104 points 4 days ago

That seems like how it is in the US too.

"Racism is only a thing very bad evil people do. I'm not an very bad evil person. Thus I cannot have done racism."

[-] exasperation@lemmy.dbzer0.com 32 points 4 days ago

"what you said was kinda racist"

"How dare you, I'm not a racist!"

The unacknowledged shift from the adjective form "racist" to the noun form "racist" is the best indicator that someone doesn't really get what racism actually is in real life.

As an example of why that's wrong, I can do something stupid without being a stupid.

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[-] binarytobis@lemmy.world 27 points 4 days ago

When I was in grad school I lived in an international student dorm where I was basically the only American. One day we had a party, and after a few drinks the Europeans started into this game they’ve all seemingly done a hundred times before where they started saying the most vile shit I’ve ever heard to each other while laughing. Like “OK, sure everyone in my country is drunk all the time, but it’s better than you guys letting in all those thieving gypsys!”

So they did a full round of about 20 people throwing the worst racism/nationalism I’ve ever come across in real life at each other, including absolutely dunking on the only black guy as if he was a representative for all africans, then like a hive mind they all turned to me and someone went “At least none of us are as racist as these Americans!” followed by uproarious laughter. I ask myself internally all the time if my behavior is problematic, but it seemed like these people never learned that skill but instead were taught “USA=racist, everyone else is good” and never questioned it or themselves.

For years this led me to privately think “Man, Europeans are way worse.” But then, you know, we elected Trump twice and the Klan came back dressed in camo.

[-] BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 7 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

When my son was in college in NYC, he deliberately cultivated a circle of friends from all over the world, which gave him a lot of interesting influences and insights that most American kids wouldn't have.

After graduation, they were hanging out together, collaborating on projects (they are all various sorts of artists), and starting their careers, when he started to notice a troubling thread running through their conversations.

He started to realize that the reason that all these international kids were in America studying the arts, is because they all come from rich families who can afford to send them to NYC for an education, and then fund their lifestyles as they pursue whatever career path they want. They have no real motivation for success, because the parents are going to pay the rent anyway. They were jamming multiple people into an apartment not because of affordability, but because it was fun to be with your friends all day. They just reproduced dorm living in a $5000 NYC apartment in Manhattan.

But the real issue came when they'd be sitting around eating and talking, and he started noticing how class-conscious they were, and judgemental of people without a lot of money - like my son. He was listening to them disparaging normal people, and realizing that they are talking about people like him. Not HIM specifically, they thought of him as one of them, and liked him, but he realized that he comes from the world they were ridiculing. When he would defend a political policy meant to protect the middle-class, or to punish the wealthy, they would look at him like he was spontaneously speaking another language.

He was starting to realize that maybe he had to cut off several of these "friends," when Covid hit and they all went back to their respective countries. A few have been back to visit, and he's decided to continue friendships with some, like his friend in Australia, and let some friendships go, like his friend from Portugal. He is still sad about the collapse of his international friend circle, but he acknowledges that he learned a lot about class and the way the wealthy think.

He is a big Mamdani/ AOC supporter.

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[-] verdi@feddit.org 85 points 4 days ago

Europeans are so racist, one facet of the civil rights movement in the US was black GIs being treated as humans by europeans during the war and then returning to the jim crow US. There is absolutely racism in Europe, as a continent. However, most US commenters here are conflating being less politically correct than the US with the de facto batshit insane institutionalized racism that still prevails stateside. Call me when EU prisons are used as slave camps (populated overwhelmingly by black people) or we have a para-military neo-nazi force arresting people because of the colour of their skin. Meanwhile black people get access to healthcare in the EU and have higher life expectancy at birth within the EU than the progressive polite US of A...

[-] Soggy@lemmy.world 40 points 4 days ago

Denmark forcibly sterilizing Greenland Inuit women, the general treatment of the Romani people, Brexiters crying about immigrants, oh hey look things are getting worse for black people, Zwarte Piet, golliwog dolls, the racism adjacent to Islamophobia...

It generally looks different in the US because a) the population is way less homogenous so different ethnic groups can both form distinct cultures and are more likely to interact with other groups and b) the core issues are baked into every facet of our history and fixing all of the lingering effects means actually facing and discussing all of it. This is complicated by a sizeable portion that are perfectly happy with a segregated society. We fought a war with ourselves about it and didn't actually fix anything in that process. (I suspect that a great many Europeans are also happy with a segregated society, and as long as that segregation is along country or even village borders they can pretend it's not the same kind of bigotry)

[-] verdi@feddit.org 24 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

There is absolutely racism in Europe, as a continent. However, most US commenters here are conflating being less politically correct than the US with the de facto batshit insane institutionalized racism that still prevails stateside. Call me when EU prisons are used as slave camps (populated overwhelmingly by black people) or we have a para-military neo-nazi force arresting people because of the colour of their skin. Meanwhile black people get access to healthcare in the EU and have higher life expectancy at birth within the EU than the progressive polite US of A...

Also, since you mention Scandinavia you forgot the Sámi and the use of eugenics in Sweden well into the 60s...

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[-] zaphod@sopuli.xyz 9 points 4 days ago

Call me when EU prisons are used as slave camps (populated overwhelmingly by black people)

Is prison labour only slavery if the prisoners are black people? Because prison labour is common in Europe.

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[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 158 points 5 days ago

My European cousins tried to explain to me that it was weird how no Jewish people died in the twin towers on 9/11, like they had all been warned. I had to patiently explain that I had friends who died in 9/11, some were Jewish, and that whatever his source was, it was likely nazi propaganda, and extremely disrespectful to repeat obvious bullshit.

[-] idegenszavak@sh.itjust.works 80 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I remember hearing that conspiracy theory, snopes has a detailed page about its origins: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/israelis-absent-911/

TLDR: originally it was not nazi, but Syrian propaganda. Obviously nazis pick up whatever fits their world view.

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 29 points 4 days ago

You just solved a 20 year old mystery that I didn't even realize I was curious about. It was super weird, because these were relatively progressive, educated adults, and the audacity of the bigotry just sort of left me confused. This helps me understand a little bit better.

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[-] rapchee@lemmy.world 16 points 3 days ago

lol "im from poland and i never heard of racism" suuure i wonder what they call romani people ...

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[-] LodeMike@lemmy.today 89 points 5 days ago

Europeans when asked about the Romani

[-] Nalivai@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago

Europeans don't actually talk about Romani all that much. The whole situation is still a big problem, the discrimination is real, a lot of people have old uninspected misconceptions, there are people who have active hate in their heart, but it's not a topic on anyone's mind. It's a small minority (~2% of population) that, ironically, lives in pretty compact communities predominately in south-eastern parts of Europe, and it's just not a thought that crosses most people's minds.
The actual racism that exists in Europe is mainly comes against refugees from muslim countries, not Romani, you need to update your mental hatemap.

[-] Comrade_Spood@quokk.au 2 points 2 days ago

There is also a lot of gaslighting about racism in Europe. "We don't see color," type shit

[-] Nalivai@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

Racism in Europe isn't based on skin colour, it's based on older, more weird stereotypes and history. There is no direct "white skin - not white skin" axis that US is known for, so technically we don't see colours, we see light reflecting properties unachievable for an American

[-] Comrade_Spood@quokk.au 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Are you white? And if so, have you ever asked non-white people if they feel they get treated with prejudice or discrimination because of the color of their skin?

Yall like to say America is so different yet you also forget, America as a nation was founded through colonization BY EUROPEANS. We learned our racism from europeans because we were europeans.

https://youtu.be/jgjujVEDo7Q

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[-] floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 3 days ago

Ignorance and racism are not the same thing. There's overlap, but even if it can be hurtful, ignorance is not malicious.

[-] HalfSalesman@lemmy.world 11 points 3 days ago

Ignorance born of environment is understandable.

Ignorance born of anti-intellectualism is malicious.

[-] uncouple9831@lemmy.zip 10 points 3 days ago

For a good time, ask central Europeans about the romani

[-] kazerniel@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago

^ This. In my native Hungary, as much as we would all count as "white" to someone from an actually racially diverse country, people are still super racist against Romani people. Even allegedly progressive people.

[-] exasperation@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 3 days ago

What does "malicious" mean here? Structural racism often doesn't have ill intent from any individual people, and nevertheless still affects people's daily lives.

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 7 points 3 days ago

There's a kind of stubborn ignorance which is very malicious. It's how we got trump, in part.

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[-] Omodi@lemmy.world 53 points 4 days ago

As an American the most openly racist thing I've experienced in person is someone from Europe talking about the Roma. I think we just talk about racism more.

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[-] Tja@programming.dev 25 points 4 days ago

Europeans who are racist (especially from the east, or countries which didn't have colonies) are racist in the sense of staring at black people and trying to touch their hair.

Americans who are racist are racist in the sense they want to disenfranchise black votes, gerrymandered the hell of their districts and maybe enslave them in a federal prison for a minor drug offense. Because lynching is frowned upon these days.

Both exist, but they are not the same.

[-] Fredthefishlord 19 points 4 days ago

You're very blatantly underestimating the extent of European racism just because it shows itself less towards black people specifically.

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[-] Soup@lemmy.world 31 points 4 days ago

Europeans will also be like British people treating Polish people like shit, or various flavours of white people from adjacent communities deciding the other white person needs to be struck from the earth.

Europeans can absolutely be violently racist. I mean, who do you think sold all those slaves to the US?

[-] shneancy@lemmy.world 25 points 4 days ago

yeah exactly, we don't need someone to have a different skin colour to be racist, that's a simple man's racism. us europeans only do the finest of racisms - normal people with normal white skin (my village) vs the weird people with a similar skin but their accents are kinda weird and scary (all the other villages, and especially that one village over there)

(huge /j in case that wasn't obvious)

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[-] Stefan_S_from_H@discuss.tchncs.de 38 points 4 days ago

What German kids in the 19th century got taught:

An 1845 German children's book called "Der Struwwelpeter" has a story about three boys teasing a dark-skinned boy. Saint Nicholas is punishing them.

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[-] SCmSTR 29 points 4 days ago

Itt:

Americans are dumb af and know it, but Europeans are dumb af and don't know it.

OH HOW THE TURNS HAVE TABLED

[-] four@lemmy.zip 26 points 5 days ago

History in school focuses on European history, which doesn't really have much racism in it (it has other not-fun stuff). And until fairly recently, especially for eastern Europe, there weren't that many people of color, so you wouldn't really encounter racism as an issue. I mean, your parents would say some wild stereotype about black people, but no one would bat an eye, so you wouldn't know that it's bad. With internet and general globalization it's changing now, but there's still a long way to go

[-] Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip 47 points 5 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

... So those lessons on the many centuries of European colonization** included zero self reflection on the racism involved?

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[-] Microw@piefed.zip 14 points 4 days ago

European history "doesn't really have much racism in it"? Huh? You sure we're talking about the same european history here? Maybe in some parts of Europe this isn't taught, but I definitely learned in school about colonialism, the transatlantic slave trade, the Nazi's racism against Slavs and Romas etc...

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this post was submitted on 08 Dec 2025
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