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[-] Gullible@sh.itjust.works 121 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)
[-] oxysis 54 points 1 week ago

Ea Nasir is a really interesting case study of how one piece of information can be interpreted in two completely different ways.

One interpretation, and the one most people know, is that the authors of the clay tablets complaints are legitimate.

The other is that Ea Nasir kept them as a record of people attempting to harm his reputation. So he could remember who to avoid doing business with in the future.

[-] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 21 points 1 week ago

Also ancient Sumer had a pretty decent legal system for it's time, it's entirely possible Ea-Nasir was keeping the tablets for a possible court case. So the ancient equivalent of saving texts from a shit customer.

[-] tomiant@piefed.social 13 points 1 week ago

Your honor, I have 500 lbs of receipts.

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[-] MummysLittleBloodSlut 10 points 1 week ago

So it's like the Lemmy modlog. Maybe it's a log of mods calling out bad users, maybe it's a log of mods lying and power tripping.

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I would give this merchant zero stars if I could

Awful copper

Worst trade experiemce of my life. I will not be returning

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[-] Quexotic@infosec.pub 83 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

And flock cameras are apparently easily rooted and repurposed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB0gr7Fh6lY

[-] MisterFrog@lemmy.world 62 points 1 week ago

Gonna be downvoted, because apparently this is car brain central, but the amount of mental gymnastics people will do to make red light camera enforcement "bad" is crazy.

The US' private company control over these cameras notwithstanding.

Fuck me, so many people die on on roads, and especially at intersections.

[-] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 44 points 1 week ago

The city I work for put up Flock cameras with specific instructions from Council that they were only to be used for identification of cars flagged in active warrants.

Within a week of their installation, police used the cameras to track the movements of someone who filed a complaint.

[-] ArtVandelay@lemmy.world 23 points 1 week ago

Fuck the police

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[-] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 41 points 1 week ago

The US’ private companies

this is entirely the problem, because they're turning over info to ICE and other agencies and it's being used oppressively.

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[-] yourgodlucifer@sh.itjust.works 18 points 1 week ago

I just don't think having this kind of surveillance state apparatus is ever worth it I don't want the government or private companies tracking my every move.

I don't even own a car and I want these cameras gone.

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[-] DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 57 points 1 week ago

I mean, being anti-authority is fine, but even if you achieve your stateless society, don't you still want your stateless society to still have traffic co-ordination somehow?

Stateless =/= rule-less

[-] paultimate14@lemmy.world 37 points 1 week ago

If only it were possible to transport humans and goods without a network of cameras invading everyone's privacy.

If only that was the natural state of the world for more of human history until just a few years ago.

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[-] michaelmrose@lemmy.world 32 points 1 week ago

Photo enforcement cameras are problematic for several reasons.

A) It has been shown that yellow lights with such cameras are very often set to a yellow duration briefer than generally accepted engineering practices to increase revenue *1

B) They discourage a rare misbehavior, actually running red lights, whilst causing another to become common. That is slamming on the brakes even when it isn't safe to stop. Exacerbated by A. Better slam on the brakes when it flicks yellow even if you are way too close to reasonably stop whilst going only the speed limit.

People who are caught up by it are almost always those who found themselves a bit too far into the intersection to safely stop. EG those who cross the threshold right as it is changing. There is for reasons of safety a few seconds between one light turning red and another green. At 30 mph (44 feet per second) someone will fully clear a 40 foot intersection in less than a second. That is to say the only people you catch aren't those who would have collided.

They are those

  1. you fucked with the shorter duration yellow oops
  2. people who hesitated because of 1 and slowed but ultimately decided to proceed thinking they can make it
  3. People with poorer brakes and or dealing with rainy conditions reducing stopping time.

C) Most of the money goes to the contractor who owns the cameras. Essentially you are letting a private company prey on your citizens as long as government gets to keep the scraps.

*1 https://ww2.motorists.org/blog/6-cities-that-were-caught-shortening-yellow-light-times-for-profit/

[-] pahlimur@lemmy.world 21 points 1 week ago

I'll add one more. They subvert our right to a trial and seeing our accuser. The fines are all supposed to be viewed by some sort of officer that is supposed to show up if you challenge the ticket. The only one I've received didn't have any info on how to challenge it. It was like a bill that obfuscated my right to a trial. Guilt is assumed and forgiveness is ignored. 28 in a school zone in an unfamiliar city, instant fine with no "oops I fucked up" recourse.

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[-] MajorasTerribleFate@lemmy.zip 22 points 1 week ago

As someone else pointed out, the traffic light itself isn't being affected, just the automated enforcement mechanism of the camera. We managed just fine without those.

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[-] zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 15 points 1 week ago

Traffic enforcement cameras are one of the worst ways I can think of to coordinate traffic.

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[-] psx_crab@lemmy.zip 56 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Taking out speedtrap so driver can self regulate is like taking out ~~CDC~~ FDA so big pharma can self regulate.

[-] empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com 82 points 2 weeks ago

These aren't about speed anymore, they're all turning into auto license plate readers run by private corporations for an infinite surveillance dragnet

[-] psx_crab@lemmy.zip 29 points 1 week ago

You don't have a speedtrap issue, you have private vulture issue. Signing the enforcement right to private company is a recipe for disaster.

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[-] AmbitiousProcess@piefed.social 20 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Edit: For everyone downvoting me, please read my follow-up responses. I'm not advocating for surveillance, I'm advocating for privacy-preserving systems that simply send a ticket if you speed, without recording your location every single time you pass any camera, rather than a system that does, because that's actually a surveillance network.

As much as it's true that a lot of these cameras are just becoming other ways to engage in surveillance, it's also true that they do a lot to manage speeding. For example, NYC had a 94% reduction in speeding in areas with the cameras. It's also true that most existing speed cameras simply aren't equipped to be converted into ALPR systems. Most ALPR deployments are done via the installation of brand-new hardware, which many places simply can't justify the additional, new costs of.

This can be done with minimal surveillance capabilities, and often is in many places. (local compute board identifies license plates, calculates speeds, sends them to an isolated cloud service, and only forwards data to the police department if it was actually a speeding infraction, otherwise the data is wiped) The ALPR cameras are primarily being installed in specific areas, but aren't always across-the-board implementations, and sometimes avoid entire cities.

For example, ALPRs are becoming popular around Washington, but the Seattle police department only has a few ALPRs solely mounted on vehicles, but zero mounted in stationary locations. ("SPD’s ALPR cameras are not fixed in location") These aren't even used for speeding cases, but are used for missing vehicle cases, and the speeding cameras are entirely separate.

It doesn't make sense to eliminate all cameras, even the speeding ones, just because other cameras can be ALPRs. We should simply advocate for removing ALPRs, not speeding cameras. This is why organizations like the EFF, dedicated to protecting people's privacy, have previously argued against these cameras broadly not because speeding cameras are also bad, but because the way those speeding camera systems were designed allowed them to also be used as ALPRs. However, I haven't seen a single case of them arguing against cameras that are solely speeding cameras with limited capacity for surveillance, because it's just not a very big issue.

Sorry, long rant 😅

[-] empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

damn that sucks bro, I'm cutting down the camera anyway because we live under the beginning fourth reich and surveillance must be fought.

Maybe police should go back to being visible on the street to control driver behavior and city road design be built around calming traffic patterns, instead of using completely undercover normal looking vehicles for traffic enforcement and then raking in millions of dollars by sitting on their ass and letting the camera do all the work?

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[-] frizzo@piefed.social 20 points 2 weeks ago

Fuck your spy cameras. If speeding was really an issue they have the technology to prevent it. Every day I hear dumber and dumber ideas and thoughts and I just want to move out of this country.

[-] SpookyBogMonster@lemmy.ml 18 points 2 weeks ago

If speeding was really an issue they have the technology to prevent it

Like building alternatives to cars so not every dipshit, 15 year old, and elderly person, are forced to share the road

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[-] frizzo@piefed.social 13 points 2 weeks ago

Such a naive view how does a tax on speed regulate anything? You must be to poor to afford lawyers to get rid of your tickets, probably don't even own a car that can accelerate faster than the limit.

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[-] I_Fart_Glitter@lemmy.world 12 points 2 weeks ago

FDA, but yeah.

I heard the ones in school zones actually have 10lb of copper and a chocolate bar inside

[-] Naich@lemmings.world 44 points 1 week ago
[-] RagingRobot@lemmy.world 22 points 1 week ago

They would remove the camera not the traffic light. I don't think that would cause an accident

[-] Naich@lemmings.world 12 points 1 week ago

The reason the camera is there is because of the crashes that happened when it wasn't.

[-] RagingRobot@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

That's not true. We have a ton of these popping up in my neighborhood in places where there haven't been issues.

Also they are owned by private companies that pocket most of the money you pay the fine with.

Why do I need 5 of these on my way to work in the morning? That's 5 times where if I accidentally went too fast I have to pay a private company $200. That's up to 10 times a day I am at risk of a random fee to some company. Insane that you want that

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[-] echodot@feddit.uk 37 points 1 week ago

I'm a little confused, do you want people running red lights in the name of "personal liberty, yeehaw" because that seems like a bad idea.

[-] kuhli@lemmy.dbzer0.com 30 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

No, I just haven't seen any evidence red light cameras are effective.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/red-light-cameras-may-not-make-streets-safer/

Also I don't like everything being under camera surveillance, so I need a strong justification to be fine with more of it

[-] merc@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 week ago

Red light cameras may not be effective at making streets safer. But, they're nearly 100% effective at making people who run red lights pay fines. The first one would be amazing, but I'm happy to settle for the second one.

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[-] pahlimur@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago

Big problem with these is profit motivation. They are usually operated by a for profit business that the city contracts to. One of the cities near me had a few installed. The company made 5 million a year in fines, city ended up with pennies. The road is built like a 40mph road but has a 25mph speed limit only where the cameras are. There is no money to update the road to actually make it safer because it all goes to the company operating the cameras.

[-] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 14 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

That's not to mention they usually change the timing to catch people off guard for more tickets. Someone went around in my area timing a bunch of different lights and found that every light with the ticket generating cameras had yellow lights shorter than the legal limit for the state.

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[-] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 23 points 1 week ago

On the one hand, omnipresent surveillance is bad and ripe for abuse.

On the other, I feel like the haphazard and selective enforcement of traffic laws by police officers is also really bad. Cops can selectively enforce laws so poor people or black people or whatever out-group suffers more. A machine should be impartial.

On the last hand, no traffic enforcement is probably going to get people killed. So that's not desirable.

Also, fines are problematic. Fines should probably scale with wealth, but also it shouldn't be a revenue source because that's a perverse incentive.

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[-] SanctimoniousApe@lemmings.world 19 points 2 weeks ago

Wait until they find out about the gold-plated interconnects.

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[-] glitchdx@lemmy.world 17 points 1 week ago

There seems to be 2 main camps in this thread.

Fuck the police, and fuck shitty drivers.

Both camps are correct.

[-] utopiah@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago

Sure, remove the red light but please also remove cars.

[-] tacosanonymous@mander.xyz 15 points 2 weeks ago

We should also state how much that is in dollar bucks.

[-] Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago

Just about $23 per camera where I'm at

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Government surveillance tracking device you mean? Enrich the local cops devices? Over half of violations monies collected goes to the corporations that market them to local and state officials with lavish dinners and vacations devices? Financial incentive to calibrate them to flag innocent drivers knowing there is little to no recourse against the company devices? 5.5 lbs you say?

[-] tomiant@piefed.social 11 points 1 week ago

That's like $27 per camera or so.

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this post was submitted on 03 Dec 2025
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