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[-] nagaram@startrek.website 126 points 8 months ago

I want to believe we could have a woman president so long as she ran on something other than being a wet noodle that's trying to be #relatable more than just being a good candidate.

Or better yet, running on something more than

"Are you really gonna let Trump win?"

[-] sem@piefed.blahaj.zone 40 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

It's funny, in 2015, I thought that that platform would be the only way a woman would be able to win over such a hard hurdle of all the conservative states with the electoral college we have.

The amount of people that looked past Donald Trump's flaws or embraced his hateful rhetoric, and blamed their decision on their dislike for Hillary was huge.

I didn't like her either. She wasn't my favorite candidate by a long shot, but I still can't believe our country is in a better place now than it would have been if she had won.

Also, it's hard to believe that was ten years ago. Gross.

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 24 points 8 months ago

She wasn't my favorite candidate by a long shot, but I still can't believe our country is in a better place now than it would have been if she had won.

I do, because you have to remember: Trump wasn't a one-off anomaly; he was the manifestation of deep structural issues and multiple converging crises within American society. It was a balloon that was going to inflate and inflate until it eventually popped, and if it didn't pop in 2016 it would have even harder in 2020. Hell, I could think of an even worse scenario: Trump is sidelined in the American fascist movement and a fascist that actually knows what he's doing takes his place.

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[-] nagaram@startrek.website 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I do think there's a debate to be had as to if were in a "better place" then if Clinton had won

If she had won, we wouldn't be better off relative to 2015. We would have been in the same shit we were in 10 years ago with a housing crisis on the rise and COVID would have still happened and probably wouldn't have gone too radically differently.

Wed still have increased income inequality and we saw under Biden that the main Liberal answer to climate change is Electric Cars which net doesn't help and in fact worsens our e-waste issue.

Obviously, I don't know this is how it would have gone for sure, but the democrats really haven't given me much to believe in.

So would we have been "better off" with a dem successor compared to the 2015 status quo? No I don't think so and I think we all knew that and it doesn't inspire people to vote or participate in elections.

Would we have been better off to what we got? Yeah probably. But that's stuff we didn't completely know until hindsight kicked in. I think we all assumed he'd be a lame president and not a modern Commodus or Nero.

Now, I don't subscribe to acceleration ist views, but there is that view point as well.

Under that ideology, we are better off compared to a Clinton or Harris win because they would have subdued the flakier radical elements in society longer.

Trump being president and his flagrant disregard for our status quo system is a massive stepping stone towards a revolution of some sort to hopefully fix the problems of our 2015 society plus the additional inflated issues by Trump.

[-] sem@piefed.blahaj.zone 18 points 8 months ago

I don't agree with a lot of this, but I can't reply a point by point here. The main thing I'll say is that Clinton wouldn't have defunded the pandemic response team before a pandemic and certainly would have set a better example wearing masks than Trump did.

The country would always have been divided about the COVID response, but Trump followed his base and furthered the divisions.

[-] Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works 18 points 8 months ago

Trump is directly responsible for Kavanaugh, Barret, and Gorsuch. That alone has been destructive already and will reap us tragic consequences for decades to come. Would Hillary have signed the ERA and gotten the right to bodily autonomy written into the law so it couldn't be "reinterpreted" away? Maybe. But she wouldn't have set attack dogs after it, and after trans people and immigrants.

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[-] Kirp123@lemmy.world 24 points 8 months ago

Or if you guys had an actual popular election instead of the whole Electoral College shit. A woman won the popular vote in 2016.

[-] I_Jedi@lemmy.today 13 points 8 months ago

If a woman performs a progressive Tea Party style takeover of the DNC, I can see her having a good shot at winning the general election.

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[-] Krono@lemmy.today 51 points 8 months ago

Anyone suggesting that the US is too sexist to elect a woman president has to explain the election of Claudia Sheinbaum.

By every metric I can find, Mexico is more misogynistic than the US. You can look at crime statistics on domestic violence, rape, murder; or opinion surveys showing men's negative attitude toward women -- all the stats coming out of Mexico are worse.

Yet somehow, Mexico overwhelmingly elected a woman (a Jewish woman in an 85% Christian population, too).

My hypothesis is that policy matters much more than the gender of a candidate. Kamala had absolutely pathetic policy proposals, supporting the status quo of corporate economic domination and a foreign policy soaked in innocent blood. but maybe I'm biased.

[-] BarbecueCowboy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 8 months ago

Can you imagine a world where Democrats are going to go all in on competing on policy?

[-] SoleInvictus 13 points 8 months ago

Their donors/handlers would be so angry!

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[-] OmegaMan@lemmings.world 13 points 8 months ago

Mexico doesn't have as bonehead of an election system that favors the more historically sexist party.

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[-] IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world 33 points 8 months ago

Doesn't help that the "women candidate" the DNC spit out are neoliberal status quo protectors, their "female candidates" is at best performative from them.

[-] ripcord@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago

Oh, like their men candidates.

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[-] HotsauceHurricane@lemmy.world 24 points 8 months ago

She's right.
We would have elected one by now if that was the case OHWAITWEDID https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election

[-] Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works 28 points 8 months ago

And Harris saw a massive surge of popularity when Biden first stepped down. When the only thing most people knew about her was that she was a black woman, everyone loved her. It was only when she opened her mouth that her popularity tanked hard.

[-] BakerBagel@midwest.social 20 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

She was pretty popular when Tim ~~Kaine~~ Waltz was calling out Republicans forbeing eeird and heinous. But then they reigned that in and decided to focus on how great the economy actually was and started to bring out the most heinous Republicans from 20 years ago for rhe campaign.

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[-] Schmoo@slrpnk.net 23 points 8 months ago

I'm so fucking sick of this argument. It's nothing more than centrist cope; a way of willfully misunderstanding the reason for Hillary Clinton's and Kamala Harris' campaign failures.

[-] A_norny_mousse@feddit.org 23 points 8 months ago

Regression.

I feel like 10+ years ago the USA would have been more ready (maybe still not fully, idk).

[-] billwashere@lemmy.world 22 points 8 months ago

No it’s not America isn’t ready for a woman president. It’s not ready to have the DNC keep nominating candidates that lack any appeal or enthusiasm.

Let me preface this rant with I voted for both Hillary and Kamala.

Hillary was a terrible candidate because she is neither conservative or liberal/progressive. The DNC railroaded Bernie because it was Hillary’s “turn”.

And with Kamala instead of have an actual primary and getting the best candidate, they just shoe horned her in at the last possible minute and expected everyone to just be ok with it. Not to mention she falls into the same category as Hillary who is neither conservative or progressive so equally disliked on both sides.

I think the problem ultimately lies within the democrats themselves unwilling to listen to the younger voters who are in dire need of hope and change not the status quo that really isn’t working for them or anybody really. It also doesn’t help that neither party really gives two shits about pissing off the liberal base and it shows.

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[-] cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 8 months ago

She's right.

I thought we were ready for a Black president, and maybe some of the country was. Where I was living at the time, a white man was okay working side by side with a Black man. He'd call him brother, they'd eat at each other's places, their wives would hang out, their kids would play together... I thought racism was mostly a memory. People were even fine with a Black boss. But when it came to a Black president, they just couldn't cope.

If these people can't see past skin colour, they definitely won't see past gender. For these people, the First Gentleman would be the "real" president. They would not respect her and, at most, would say she's just the spokesman for the real president. A lot of people liked Michelle Obama, but not because she's Michelle Obama, but because she's Mrs Barack Obama. They don't care what she thinks or knows, they just expect that she's speaking for him. And, I think, in 8 years, we saw that she was her own person, but a lot of people couldn't see it.

I wonder if she's interested in running. I think Michelle Obama would poll better than Kamala Harris. I have a feeling she's done with politics, though, if she were ever really interested.

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 15 points 8 months ago

Shut the fuck up Michelle, go to the dustbin of history with your husband and never show your face in public ever again please. You fucking know why Hillary and Harris lost and it was not because they were women.

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[-] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 12 points 8 months ago

The country is not ready for a president with intelligence, integrity, morals, empathy or even a bit of humanity.

[-] FreshParsnip@lemmy.ca 12 points 8 months ago

Perhaps it's because the Democrat party keeps trying to force a woman candidate instead of letting it happen naturally. Voters wanted Bernie Sanders, instead the party made Hilary Clinton the nominee. Then they didn't even have a proper primary in 2024. Biden won the primary because he was the incumbent and nobody really tried to run against him. Then he dropped out, it was too late for a primary, and Harris was just appointed as his replacement.

[-] EmpireInDecay@lemmy.ml 12 points 8 months ago

She's perpetrating the bullshit that it's about race or gender. If that woman is continuing the exact same policies that old white men orchestrating she will lose. The public by and large is saying we are tired of old white rich men dictating our lives telling us that we are not struggling telling us that everything is fine when we can see in our day-to-day lives that is not true. People did not support Biden because people saw that Biden was a continuation of the same policies that gave us Trump the first time. And then Harris said that she would not have changed a single thing that occurred under Biden. She was a continuation of old white male policies. And any other woman that runs in the future on that same platform will lose regardless of gender regardless of race. Anyone mentioning race or gender is weaponizing race and gender as a political tool

[-] leadore@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Disclaimer: My comment which follows does not apply to fans and supporters of a candidate. It applies to a difference in how male and female candidates are referred to in the media.

When our society reaches the stage where TV pundits, political blog writers, etc. stop referring to women candidates by just their first name (almost every time) in the same context that they continue referring to men candidates using their last name, or title + last name, then maybe I'll believe the US is ready to elect a woman president.

(edit: I should add to that list, also when even the opposing side will use her last name same as they do with male candidates that they are against, meaning that they may hate her but still have at least that much respect for her as a candidate)

[-] leadore@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago

Probably because the US is such a religious conservative country. Christianity (especially evangelical and more conservative type), patriarchy and authoritarianism go together, and that's who the great majority of his voters were.

Considering trump won twice against women but lost when he ran against a man, it seems the majority of voters would rather elect any man than any woman, even if that man is seriously flawed on every imaginable level. Only when both candidates were men were factors other than gender given more weight.

[-] Hegar@fedia.io 21 points 8 months ago

Given how incredibly well the harris campaign was doing at first and the outpouring of bi-partisan support for shooting CEOs dead in the street immediately after the election, and the barnstorming success of mamdani, i think it's safe the say harris lost because they took pelosi's advice and tacked hard to the right, instead of solidifying their early victories by continuing to lean left.

I think it's pretty clear the country was willing to vote for harris, dems just fucked it up.

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[-] Lasherz12@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago

It's pretty telling how easily liberals give up on their supposed ambitions even when the effort was obviously flawed.

[-] melsaskca@lemmy.ca 8 points 8 months ago

Sad indeed. The rest of the world does mostly okay by their elected woman leaders. So...no metric system and no women leaders. Got it. I just hope to all that is holy that the country is not ready for a pedophiliac leader.

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this post was submitted on 16 Nov 2025
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