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people should look at australian ATC, i hear they are recruiting international atc. no language barrier there.
This seems like one of the jobs that should get paid no matter what, bc you know people could die.
Retired ATC here.
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Controllers do get paid VERY well, especially EnRoute Controllers. Within any EnRoute center, there will be 150-300 controllers (+ 100 techs, managers, admin, HR, etc...) There is a wide variance of financial situations. Some controllers were single with no kids and no money issues. Some were a paycheck from being homeless...the same as any other organization. Some live within their means, some couldn't save a dollar if their lives depended on it (but they still ran aircraft tight). Kids, medical bills, tuition, braces...no different than anywhere...however...
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Controllers can't strike. When PATCO controllers walked out in 1981, Reagan fired them all and replaced them with Military controllers until new hires could be trained. It set precedent that striking for ATC is not allowed. Could they strategically call in sick? Yes. But management is looking for this. And with this current climate of "fire fed employees first, ask to return to work later", the current union (NATCA) is warning everyone not to call in sick in a coordinated manner. Especially with the NLRB unable to hear cases (due to the board not being filled by the current administration).
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Controllers will not just "Let planes crash". They will be petty, snarky, or may delay your flight, but no, they aren't going to "just let planes crash". Also, while controllers are not held personally liable for accidents, a controller CAN be held liable for proven negligence or intentionally crashing aircraft. Controllers make it a point of pride to work more planes with no accidents or loss of separation.
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No, controllers are not going to quit. It's a federal government job that pays well (when they get paid), with government benefits and a pension. It's a better job than almost any other in the country that takes a specific kind of visual and audio processing to perform. It's an exhilarating and challenging job that changes every day and makes you feel proud of what you do.
It's disingenuous to say "Don't like it? Quit." It takes years of training. It's one of the most stressful and emotionally taxing trainings that you can go through. It's a high paying job with a pension. You don't go through that fire just to give it all up.
Some controllers will need a second job. When the 35-day shutdown hit, I was fine the 1st partial paycheck. The first missed full check? Okay. But heading into the SECOND missed paycheck? Well...I was starting to see where I needed to move things around. Think about it. Half a paycheck. Then no paycheck. Then NO paycheck again! These things start to make you pucker a little more each time.
Is it really reasonable to say, "You get paid so well, you should be able to afford NOT GETTING PAID FOR OVER A MONTH (oh and...you still need to come in to work). I don't really know anyone that can take an entire month with no pay and just be okay.
Are we really using the avocado toast argument for ATC???
And, you can't REALLY get a second job. The FAA makes it clear that you are a controller 1st and any other job cannot supercede the duties of your ATC work. You are still working for the FAA, you're just not getting paid for it. So no, you can't just say, "You're not paying me, well, I'll just get a job at Walmart in the meantime"....you still got a shift to work!"
The solution is so much bigger than ATC. How we fund the government, WHY we even shut the government down, WHY we allow "essential" employees that are SO vital to our operation and national security that they CANNOT STOP WORKING even if they don't get paid. ATC is a pawn in the middle of the government shutdown b.s.
For those who do get paid very well, I wonder why so many can’t afford even one month; many experts suggest a 3-6 month emergency fund (I know the median paid American can’t really do that these days). Now, I understand everyone has a different situation, but I always find it strange when so many who are being paid very well for years don’t have even a month’s worth of expenses.
I think this non payment situation is inexcusable though and even well prepared individuals cannot do this forever. Something will have to give.
Controllers are going to let planes crash, but it's not going to be on purpose
That all sounds great. They're working for orange Hitler. He's straight up said furloughed workers don't have to get back pay, a policy he fucking signed into law himself! He found a way to pay ICE and got one of his donors to pay the troops but not a group that's nigh unreplaceable, responsible for several tons of metal not falling out of the sky. Norms and promises don't apply anymore.
Imo unpaid traffic controllers represents a safety violation and I would argue breeches union contracts for pilots and flight crews, who are the folks who ought to be striking.
reagan dissolved the original ATC union, so i doubt the new one has any teeth.
They aren't talking about ATC, they are talking about Pilot unions.
So what happens when an ATC just... Can't afford to live anymore? Say this shutdown continues until April, and all the ATC savings are basically gone? There's gonna be either mass strikes or just a bunch of them quitting because the alternative is working a full-time job and starving at home.
australian ATC is looking for international applicants, so it might be an option if they are unwilling to move to another industry.
What is “high paying”
What if you call in sick without coordinating with anyone?
Imagine if everyone just stopped working.
ATCs should be striking right now. We don't need air travel. Shut down the skies and the Orange Reich will suffer.
How the fuck is that even considered a strike?
If I don't pay my mechanic, and they refuse to fix my car, is that a strike?
If it isn't illegal to not work when you aren't paid, that just a form of slavery
They've done that. Reagan fired all of them, which was kinda insane.
and we never recovered to pre-reagan ATC levels too. i think we still have remenents of the atc from reagan still working right now,.
That doesn't stop them from doing it again. Striking always carries the risk of being fired
being furloughed is essentially bein unemployed right now anyways, no harm in quitting or taking LOA.
Eh, the world is a lot more dependent on air travel than we were in the 80s. I don't think Trump will be able to do the same
theres also less atc willing to apply than before, plus its competitive too, so even less than that makes it through the application stage. they also have medical condition restrictions too, so not everyone that can be an ATC will be able to, which distills it further down.
5 U.S.C. § 7311 essentially says federal employees do not have the legal right to strike. the last time ATC went on strike it did not go well for them
Does anybody, really?
Oh they said they aren't allowed! In that case lol
I'm not an air traffic controller but it seems they haven't been treated very well lately to Begin with and now they are asked to work without pay. At that point I would stop caring about what the people in charge told me.
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Nobody with any number of years in is going to risk losing their retirement.
Quit.
If they aren't paying you, leave. Mid-shift for an extra kick to their dick*. What are they going to do? Not pay you? At this point you're a volunteer to an abusive relationship.
Yes, planes would crash*. That's the point. People shouldn't even be getting on planes right now when the system designed to keep them safe is falling to bits. This guy is going to make an error resulting in a plane crash anyway once he really gets strapped and is up all-day delivering food to the rich and then trying to manage air traffic at night.
**I don't know what to tell you. If I die because a plane falls on me due to the federal government being a mess, I would hope that someone, somewhere, would get motivated to do something about it.
I have to fly today, because if I didn't, I would be flushing 6,000 down the drain. Otherwise I agree with you.
do you want your air traffic controller, who with a tiny mistake will kill you and everyone around you, to be tired and distracted from doing doordash and worrying about being able to pay his rent and eat?
Wait, high school tuition?
private school i assume, probably doesnt want to mix the "plebs" with his bougie lifestyle.
Doesn’t want her mixing with the poors and brown people in a taxpayer-funded public school.
The father in the interview is black. This isn't a race thing.
He wants his daughter to get a good education. As an air traffic controller, he surely knows the value of education because he works a job that takes a lot of education and training to get into. Public schools in the united states are very bad, and underfunded. Private middle and high schools are common in cities and are usually much better than the public schools. Its a good choice for anyone with the means, which he had every other month this year.
Racism is systemic. It is behind the right wing policies that constantly underfund education. It is rarely the driver of individuals. Individual's decisions are shaped by the options available more than anything else. Sending his daughter to a private school is the best choice for a father in his position. Hold your ire for those in positions of power.
many public schools are bad due to poor funding, many are not. I do t blame any parent for wanting their kid to get a good education, but the more those who can simply turn to private schools, the less political will there is to fix public taxpayer-funded schools.
we have a so-so funded school in the 2000s, but most of the students are sitll struggling, because its not enough funding still. only a select few students each class/graduating class, are exceptional(gifted 4.0+earners), we know because they made big deal glorified meeting how these were the "Best" students and compared it the audienc whom are all struggling.
You are making a lot of assumptions. All the private and charter schools in my town are extremely religious and constantly on the verge of losing accreditation due to prioritizing profit and religion over education. That’s the big reason nobody is using the vouchers my state is trying to push.
When I was in 9th grade one of them was forced to close and several people had to redo grades. I was in class with people who had been sophomores and juniors that’s how bad their private school was.
I’m not saying all private schools are bad or that all public schools are good, but yeah, you are making a lot of assumptions.
I'm explaining the motivation that reasonable people would take when acting reasonably. Attributing the choice to racism is a much less reasonable assumption.
Education varies because of state and local governments. Having a kid in private school is not innately unreasonable.
You should see a therapist
and all it took was 25 days to become one of "the poors".
To people wondering how anyone can go homeless from missing a couple paychecks well....makes a gesture at this
Why are you automatically assuming race is the reason that someone goes to a private school?
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I think I'm missing info here. Air traffic controllers, at least in my country, are VERY well paid. Going a month without paycheck is usually not a huge problem to them because they have savings.
How is this guy having to go to doordash deliveries to get some money after some weeks of going on partial paycheck? How "partial" is it? Or how low is their normal paycheck? Or what are their common expenses?
This is America. He probably has crippling medical debt or some shit.
*Definitely
Lots and lots of people in the US live above their means. Especially rich people since the keeping up with the jones mentality is everywhere. That means while they might have a lot of assets they are also leveraged out the nose and live paycheck to paycheck.
Exactly. Some people will be "poor" no matter how big their salary is. They'll be unable to accumulate any savings because they spend as much as they make, and then add credit card debt on top of it.
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https://www.usawage.com/usa/air_traffic_controllers-salary.php
It looks like they can make between $73k and $189k a year.
that doesnt seem worth it for how competitive it is to get the job. also its a very stressful job, will likely cause health issues eating into the income.
I feel like airport workers might need to strike to end the shutdown and keep people safe.
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this post was submitted on 26 Oct 2025
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