Liberals’ lead shrinks as Canadian mood plummets to historic lows (www.hilltimes.com)

submitted 10 months ago by Worstdriver@lemmy.world to c/canada@lemmy.ca

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[-] Tigeroovy@lemmy.ca 59 points 10 months ago

To be honest I didn’t really expect anything from Carney beyond being a less insane seeming conservative. Which seems to be what he is.

I’m not really a fan, but I really dislike Pierre.

I don’t expect a lot from the people in this country. If more people voted more left of either L or C I might. But we aren’t dealing with an especially intelligent populace. Made worse by the bleed of US style political bullshit into our country like a shit stain we can’t ever get clean.

[-] BCBoy911@lemmy.ca 13 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Pollievre will do tax cuts, deregulation and austerity while keeping us distracted with 24/7 idiotic conservative culture wars. Carney is doing tax cuts, deregulation and austerity while keeping us distracted with the promise of "nation building projects" that will never materialize. Either way it's tax cuts, deregulation and austerity. The only difference is the type lies they're telling to distract us. :-)

[-] King_Bob_IV@startrek.website 22 points 10 months ago

Not true, PP would also be directly and purposefully eroding minority rights and be attacking the vulnerable. Carney is at least leaving them alone. As a minority that is being directly targeted in the states right now I am really happy to be in Canada with a PM that isn't spreading active hate towards me right now. Instead I live in a province where that's happening. I will take only one level of government hating me.

[-] BCBoy911@lemmy.ca 10 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

True, it's like a hostage situation. Conservatives threaten to harm trans kids, or immigrants or whatever, and Liberals say "you'll have the vote for us if you want $(minority group) to live, but don't worry, you can vote your conscience next election", then never do anything to actually protect those minority groups in law, so the cycle repeats next election.

Liberals will never give real protection to vulnerable people because they want them to be constantly under threat of the Conservatives to keep the left from voting for the actual left-wing parties that WOULD give those groups protection that isn't subject to the whims of whatever party is in charge. Diabolical.

[-] King_Bob_IV@startrek.website 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Yeah, 100%. The false dichotomy and the first past the post system really hurts us. Sadly getting that changed is something people don't focus on enough. We were "supposed to" have electoral reforms under the prior liberal leadership, but everyone forgot to bring it up ever again.

But saying they are "the same" really pushes that they are both "equally acceptable". Which I feel undermines the system even further. We need to emphasize the better then push them away from the worse. Right now they ratchet to worse because voters move with the "center" which is a sliding scale. As long as people feel they are equally "bad" then there isn't a big push to change things the same way as if they go "they both suck here is why one sucks more and let's push the better one to be better in areas they suck in" or "let's vote what we believe and stop being "stratigic" which would show parties where they actually should move to

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[-] TomatoPotato69@lemmy.ca 9 points 10 months ago

I think we need an actual left-of-centre party. The NDP is just a right-of-centre party who support some minor social programs as long as they don't interfere too much with extracting money via capitalism. I'm not looking for a socially progressive right-of-centre party. I want to see an actual left-of-centre party. A party that would nationalise our resources and use the proceeds to fund centralised housing, healthcare, education, parks and recreation spaces, infrastructure, and other things that people need and enjoy. A party that wants to improve labour standards and invest in ourselves, and move away from US style capitalism. It can be done.

[-] yes_this_time@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago

NDP is not a right wing party

[-] Revan343@lemmy.ca 4 points 10 months ago

They sure seem to be trying to be; hopefully new leadership brings them back to their roots as a labour party

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[-] snoons@lemmy.ca 30 points 10 months ago

People voted for a guy that said he would stand up for Canada after Trumps deranged threats. Instead they got a zionist worm that folds at the slightest whisper of "tariff".

[-] terath@sh.itjust.works 56 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

As opposed to a Nazi simp who would have sold us straight into the gas chambers of America? Right call. Every time.

Also so far Carney has been harder on Israel than any Canadian prime minister to date. So get out of here will your bullshit propaganda calling him a Zionist. Go back to the US.

[-] Tm12@lemmy.ca 36 points 10 months ago

Strange. We don't have a two party system, but somehow the seat distribution reflects that. If only the Librerals addressed FPTP like promised during their "crisis election" of the time.

[-] ImgurRefugee114@reddthat.com 23 points 10 months ago

Liberals always want to change FPTP until they pass it...

[-] terath@sh.itjust.works 5 points 10 months ago

If pigs could fly we’d have less bacon. Are you new or did you forget we vote for the least bad party? There was only one option last election that would not result in PP getting in. But you keep going on fantasizing.

[-] snoons@lemmy.ca 11 points 10 months ago

He is a Zionist, he wants a "Zionist Palestine". What does that mean, other then he supports the Zionists agenda of murdering and replacing all Palestinians? At the same time his government continues to sell weapons to Israel, while saying they aren't.

Thus, for all intents and purposes, Carney is a Zionist as he is actively supporting Israels goals.

https://www.cjpmemap.ca/2025_06_25_lb_cbc_news

https://rachelgilmore.substack.com/p/carney-reiterates-call-for-a-zionist

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[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 7 points 10 months ago

Literally nothing in the parent comment even alludes to PP what are you even talking about?

Also so far Carney has been harder on Israel than any Canadian prime minister to date.

Really? What did he do? Not say, do.

[-] WheelerSelanne@lemmy.ca 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

There was nothing in the parent comment about Israel or Gaza either but here we all are.

[-] terath@sh.itjust.works 4 points 10 months ago

You know exactly what he’s done. Recognizing a Palestinian state won’t stop the war but it’s an important step.

There is nothing else Canada can do anyways. Do you want us to get into hot war with Israel and subsequently the US? I don’t. And we have no other leverage.

[-] mrdown@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

He could stop lying about the selling of arm to israel, he can do a both way arm ambargo and impose sanctions on the state of israel. He should apologize about saying that a palestinian state need to be a zionist palestine. He could acknowledge the genocide and stop pretending. He should take action on the people who was selling land of occupied west bank in synagogues

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 10 months ago

Recognizing a Palestinian state won’t stop the war but it’s an important step.

It would be an important step within a context of action, but when the context is unchanged complicity it's hard to see it as anything but a smokescreen.

There is nothing else Canada can do anyways.

Boycott, Divest, Sanction moment. Other than that, send the navy to escort their activists going on a humanitarian mission in international waters. Should the Canadian government not be protecting its citizens?

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[-] FaceDeer@fedia.io 27 points 10 months ago

Ah yes, as we saw in the US the best thing to do when a left-leaning leader isn't as harsh on Israel as we'd like is to swing our support over to the right-leaning leader.

[-] Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 12 points 10 months ago

It’s working out great down here!

[-] BCBoy911@lemmy.ca 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Is that what the poster said? This isn't America, we have 3rd and even 4th and 5th parties to choose from. There's no reason to vote for the zionist if you want a principled anti-Zionist party like the NDP.

[-] FaceDeer@fedia.io 2 points 10 months ago

The Americans have third parties too. And just like in America, voting third party in Canada usually acts as a "spoiler" that helps out a party that doesn't align ideologically with the voter who's casting their protest vote. You have to vote strategically in each riding to make your vote actually accomplish something and that usually comes down to a choice between Liberal and Conservative.

Thanks, first-past-the-post.

[-] BCBoy911@lemmy.ca 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Please do not turn our multi-party democracy into an America-style duopoly with your "strategic voting". All it's done is turn our elections into another Red-vs-Blue nightmare where both parties have the same policies and are only differentiated by culture wars.

[-] FaceDeer@fedia.io 4 points 10 months ago

It's not my decision, unfortunately. It's a structural feature that's inherent in first-past-the-post voting. If you don't vote strategically then you are "throwing your vote away" whether you believe it or not.

Canada's been fortunate in having some ridings where a national "third party" was locally the strategic one to vote for. I myself was fortunate to be able to vote NDP last election, my riding was one of the few where the two leading candidates were NDP and Conservative rather than Liberal and Conservative. Same went for some Bloc voters in Quebec, presumably. But look at the history of Canadian elections, it's a two-party system in all but name. The times where it wasn't ultimately a question of "Liberal or Conservative?" Were rare aberrations, and even in those rare cases where there was a viable third party candidate they still only made it as far as opposition.

I would very much like to change that. I consider Trudeau's greatest betrayal to be how he reneged on electoral reform, and I suspect it will be seen as Canada's last lost opportunity to avoid an American-style future fate. But just because I don't like it doesn't mean I can't recognize the actual situation we're facing.

[-] GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca 3 points 10 months ago

I consider Trudeau's greatest betrayal to be how he reneged on electoral reform, and I suspect it will be seen as Canada's last lost opportunity to avoid an American-style future fate.

This is worth all the upvotes in this discussion.

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[-] mrdown@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

Trump won because Americans was fooled by his promise of fixing the economy and Carney will lose for the same reason next time and like in the USA they will be people who claim that Palestine is the reason he lost and the other side with complain about how anti occupation people are the reason Carney lose

[-] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 16 points 10 months ago

FWIW, He's better on the Gaza issue than Trudeau.

[-] mycodesucks@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

In the US it isn't worth anything.

Everyone that's not perfect is equally bad.

[-] Nalivai@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

And if they're perfect they're surely hiding something, better not vote at all

[-] Tigeroovy@lemmy.ca 6 points 10 months ago

I mean, I more just wanted a guy that wouldn’t just bend over and present himself and let Trump go to town.

[-] BCBoy911@lemmy.ca 22 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Liberals got elected on a platform of divorcing the Canadian economy from the Americans and rejuvenating the Canadian economy through nation-building megaprojects from coast to coast built with Canadian natural resources. What do we have so far?

No announcements on any megaprojects
No homes built, instead just a big tax giveaway to developers
all counter-tariffs on the US dropped to appease trump
digital services tax repealed to appease trump
despite appeasement, no end in sight to US trade war
Also started a trade war with China for no reason, so we're getting spitroasted by tariffs from both superpowers
austerity programs at Canada Post leading to the 2nd strike in a year

Unfortunately I don't think the NDP or BQ have the balls to topple the government this early, but Carney came into office looking like a MVP and he's a big fat bust.

[-] ikidd@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Counter-tariffs just raise prices here. They were a terrible idea to start with, just like tariffs are in general. The digital services tax was on its way out even before Trump was elected. China likes kicking people when they're down so we got restrictions on ag products just to twist the knife.

Plenty of reasons to be pissed off with the Liberals, but those aren't some of them.

[-] BCBoy911@lemmy.ca 14 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Counter-tariffs just raise prices here. They were a terrible idea to start with, just like tariffs are in general

No they aren't, blanket tariffs the way Trump is doing it is stupid, but counter-tariffs on American products that can be replaced with made-in-Canada products works and helps keep jobs in Canada.

The digital services tax was on its way out even before Trump was elected

This is also wrong... the Digital Services tax was introduced as a Liberal priority all the way back in 2020 and passed in 2024. It probably would have been repealed by Pollievre if he won, but Liberals repealing their own years-in-the-making policy, a day before going into effect as an act of appeasement to Donald Trump was definitely not inevitable.

China likes kicking people when they’re down so we got restrictions on ag products just to twist the knife.

Their tariffs on us are counter-tariffs in response to us imposing a 100% tax on Chinese-made solar panels.

[-] ikidd@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

counter-tariffs on American products that can be replaced with made-in-Canada products works and helps keep jobs in Canada.

Well, you and I and most economists will have to disagree about how tariffs "work". The local industries they were supposedly protecting either don't exist or actively dislike tariffs that are supposed to help them. Because a falling tide sinks all boats. Tariffs are inflationary, end of message.

Repealing or delaying the DST was part of the OECD treaty obligations that most of the other countries involved had been doing since it was set up in 2021 with the revamping of the multinational tax treaties. Maybe Trump's bullshit was the nail in the coffin, but it sure wasn't the first and they just followed the other 140 countries involved that shut that down last year if they even still had them.

And solar panels have had the 165% tariff (not 100%) from China on them since sometime in the mid teens (https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/sima-lmsi/mif-mev/sml-eng.html) and we see the incredible effect that has had on the growth of our burgeoning home-grown solar panels industry in Canada, have we not? Because tariffs work, amirite? I hate this tariff with a passion because I'm entirely offgrid and have tried to jump through all the hoops to get my panels at the prices I see on Alibaba, but they aren't going anywhere because China subsidizes their panels so heavily.

[-] BCBoy911@lemmy.ca 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

There are no Canadian-made panels because we don't tariff the panels coming in from the US and other Asian countries. Only China is singled out because Canada is playing second fiddle on the US's new cold war strategy against China - sucks that we aren't a sovereign country that can make our own policies and forge relationships with whatever country we want, but it is what it is. 51st state, baby!

[-] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 3 points 10 months ago

oh...wait until you see the cuts in the fall budget. The most anti-science PM since Trudeau.

[-] rozodru@piefed.social 10 points 10 months ago

I mean lets face it the only reason Carney won was because of what Trump said. that's it. We Canadians are honestly pretty dumb when it comes to politics and we sure do love our sound bites. Remember PP had this thing in the bag until Trump opened his mouth and then suddenly we all said "oh yeah...yeah we don't want that lets vote for the guy that kinda isn't that" while the NDP "here's Singh, sure he doesn't have a single original thought in his head but...yeah it's the best we can do"

Like our choices were unoriginal man, nazi man, or none of the above man.

[-] karlhungus@lemmy.ca 7 points 10 months ago

I thought Singh was great, but didn't stand a chance against white men.

Carneys been a real disappointment, but I guess he's not Bitcoin pete

[-] GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca 6 points 10 months ago

There were plenty of people who were in the "Anyone but Pete" camp before Trump said his piece. If Pierre had said anything to denounce Trump's statement, a good chunk of those who joined that camp probably would have stayed with the Conservatives just because they were tired of the Liberals. So maybe Pierre is a terrible person, but at least he's willing to say what means, even if doing so loses him an election. And to be clear, what he means is not doing anything against Trump, America, our local far-right head cases, oh, and also run-of-the-mill conservative...businesses.