Liberals’ lead shrinks as Canadian mood plummets to historic lows (www.hilltimes.com)

submitted 4 days ago by Worstdriver@lemmy.world to c/canada@lemmy.ca

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[-] Tigeroovy@lemmy.ca 59 points 3 days ago

To be honest I didn’t really expect anything from Carney beyond being a less insane seeming conservative. Which seems to be what he is.

I’m not really a fan, but I really dislike Pierre.

I don’t expect a lot from the people in this country. If more people voted more left of either L or C I might. But we aren’t dealing with an especially intelligent populace. Made worse by the bleed of US style political bullshit into our country like a shit stain we can’t ever get clean.

[-] BCBoy911@lemmy.ca 13 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Pollievre will do tax cuts, deregulation and austerity while keeping us distracted with 24/7 idiotic conservative culture wars. Carney is doing tax cuts, deregulation and austerity while keeping us distracted with the promise of "nation building projects" that will never materialize. Either way it's tax cuts, deregulation and austerity. The only difference is the type lies they're telling to distract us. :-)

[-] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 1 points 17 hours ago

Poilievre would increase GST so poor pay taxes. That was the whole point of Mulroney's GST.

[-] King_Bob_IV@startrek.website 22 points 3 days ago

Not true, PP would also be directly and purposefully eroding minority rights and be attacking the vulnerable. Carney is at least leaving them alone. As a minority that is being directly targeted in the states right now I am really happy to be in Canada with a PM that isn't spreading active hate towards me right now. Instead I live in a province where that's happening. I will take only one level of government hating me.

[-] BCBoy911@lemmy.ca 10 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

True, it's like a hostage situation. Conservatives threaten to harm trans kids, or immigrants or whatever, and Liberals say "you'll have the vote for us if you want $(minority group) to live, but don't worry, you can vote your conscience next election", then never do anything to actually protect those minority groups in law, so the cycle repeats next election.

Liberals will never give real protection to vulnerable people because they want them to be constantly under threat of the Conservatives to keep the left from voting for the actual left-wing parties that WOULD give those groups protection that isn't subject to the whims of whatever party is in charge. Diabolical.

[-] King_Bob_IV@startrek.website 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Yeah, 100%. The false dichotomy and the first past the post system really hurts us. Sadly getting that changed is something people don't focus on enough. We were "supposed to" have electoral reforms under the prior liberal leadership, but everyone forgot to bring it up ever again.

But saying they are "the same" really pushes that they are both "equally acceptable". Which I feel undermines the system even further. We need to emphasize the better then push them away from the worse. Right now they ratchet to worse because voters move with the "center" which is a sliding scale. As long as people feel they are equally "bad" then there isn't a big push to change things the same way as if they go "they both suck here is why one sucks more and let's push the better one to be better in areas they suck in" or "let's vote what we believe and stop being "stratigic" which would show parties where they actually should move to

[-] TomatoPotato69@lemmy.ca 9 points 3 days ago

I think we need an actual left-of-centre party. The NDP is just a right-of-centre party who support some minor social programs as long as they don't interfere too much with extracting money via capitalism. I'm not looking for a socially progressive right-of-centre party. I want to see an actual left-of-centre party. A party that would nationalise our resources and use the proceeds to fund centralised housing, healthcare, education, parks and recreation spaces, infrastructure, and other things that people need and enjoy. A party that wants to improve labour standards and invest in ourselves, and move away from US style capitalism. It can be done.

[-] yes_this_time@lemmy.world 10 points 3 days ago

NDP is not a right wing party

[-] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 1 points 17 hours ago

They aren't an independent party at all.

[-] Revan343@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 days ago

They sure seem to be trying to be; hopefully new leadership brings them back to their roots as a labour party

[-] TomatoPotato69@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 days ago

I didn't say they are a right wing party... I said that they are drifting right of centre and not really a left-of-centre party any more. They have a socially conscious platform, and in my opinion are the best of the bunch. But economically, they aren't really a left-of-centre party. They still subscribe to a generally free market and even in their 2025 platform, while they commit money to a national housing strategy, they still aren't trying to centralise housing and omit the private developers entirely. They still want to try and legislate private industry in a free market rather than centralise. What I would like to see is an ACTUAL left leaning party, where the government controls the means of supply for our basic needs and critical industries. The government should be directly employing crews to build a variety of housing options. Not just banning REITs and hedgefunds from purchasing affordable housing, but also eliminating the private landlords and having strict standards for property management. The government should be in control of our oil and minerals. The government should control our ferries,mail service, and other services and operate them like the services they are and not corporations, or crown corporations. While I think the NDP is the best we have, I also feel like they have drifted more to the centre and even passing over it during the past 30 years, and I think there is room for a proper left-of-centre party that is more than just words and bandaids and actually has a desire to overhaul our economy to be able to support the social programs that don't really work when everything is trying to operate as a business, crown corp or not. Nationalise our resources and actually get some income for the government that isn't just taxes, and invest it into our country, services, and infrastructure.

[-] GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

This is the reverse mentality of alt-right ideology. Their general opinion is that anything left of them is left-wing while you seem to think that anything right of central planning and government-controlled industries is right-wing. Maybe you don't like how the words are used, but trying to convey your ideas to people by using language in a way no one else does isn't going to work.

[-] TomatoPotato69@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 days ago

Not at all. I'm saying there's a spectrum between a full centrally planned left wing wing government, and a full free market right wing government, and the Canadian political parties generally fall somewhere towards the centre of that spectrum, and that over the past 30 years the NDP along with the Liberals and Conservatives have shifted towards the right. In the case of the NDP, I think that while they have been a centre-left party, some of the concessions they have made with Singh have pushed NDP economic policy to the centre of that spectrum, and possibly crossing over the centre-line. Maybe they aren't quite at that point, but if they continue on that trend, I think it would be good to have another party further to the left. NOT communism. NOT authoritarian. Democratic, but willing to use more government intervention rather than keep looking at only free market solutions, tax cuts, and bailouts. The NDP just isn't quite left enough, in my opinion.

That's hardly a comparable to alt-right shit. Oh, the horror of Canada profiting off of it's resources in order to run BC Ferries and Canada Post (and all the other services that never make the news) like services instead of companies and have well funded health and education systems. The NDP needs to stop selling out (and admitting defeat before the election has happened) or we need an actual centre-left option. Seems like a pretty valid opinion! Not everything has to be black and white, fully right or left with no in-between, or ability for political parties to shift over time.

[-] GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 days ago

But you're also saying NDP is right of center, and I suspect even Europeans in general wouldn't agree with that, let alone North Americans.

[-] TomatoPotato69@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 days ago

Sure, you can put centre wherever you are comfortable. You're missing the point I'm trying to make though (deliberately, I assume), and that is that the NDP used to be a bit more to the left, and now they have moved a bit more towards the centre-line moving in the rightward direction on that spectrum. Some might say "shifting a bit to the right". Maybe not a lot, but enough to water down their platform and push them at least firmly into just centrist territory and not centre-left, but I still consider them just to the right of centre.

I think so much of Western societies have shifted quite a bit to the right along with increased globalisation and free trade, and a bunch of US influence and missions trying to eradicate socialist governments, that it has blurred where 'centre' is on the spectrum, and 'centre' to many people has moved rightward along with the general sentiment of society today. Which is why I think a centre-left party a little bit further left of the NDP would be nice. That or if the NDP shuffled left a couple times and decided to be bold and go all-in on a proper all-encompassing left of centre policy.

[-] GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 days ago

I actually agree with a lot of what you're saying, except perhaps what is considered center. I absolutely agree we could use a more left-leaning party, whether that is the NDP or a new party, but more importantly, we need a system that allows more than two parties to consistently have a meaningful impact in government.

I don't necessarily think this new party, or the new NDP, should be as left-leaning as you do, but that also wouldn't matter as much if we didn't have the lack of representation that parties with less but still notable support receive in our current system.

[-] TomatoPotato69@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 days ago

I think I may be a bit more extreme in my examples to try and highlight the point. And I agree to disagree on the centre. My wife is Chilean, and their current government is quite a bit left of the NDP and she would totally consider the NDP to be even more right of centre than I do. But that doesn't really matter. I think somewhere in that left of centre bubble there is a good place to be found.

And I agree with you that we need more parties. And a new electoral system, maybe a mixed-member proportional system or something that retains some geographic representation. Ideally I think minority governance is where it's at. We can't and shouldn't all have the same ideas, and nobody should be able to just force through legislation with a majority. The whole point of that with some brainstorming we can make something better together that generally works for everyone, although some people can never be pleased.