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Seriously, what Israel is doing today is no different from what the Nazis did before and at the beginning of World War II, extreme nationalism, illegal expansion, annexation of foreign territory claiming it historically belongs to them, propaganda using the latest technology, terrorizing neighbors, military at the center of society.

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[-] Litebit@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

looking at russia, you can see nazis everywhere. Even the putin's Wagner terror group is based on nazism ideologies.

[-] Litebit@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Even ruscism ideology is not banned.

[-] frezik 32 points 2 days ago

Nazism is only outright banned in a few democratic countries. Even in ones where it is, like Germany, there are parties that skirt around it, like AfD. Who are getting uncomfortably popular, BTW.

It's very hard to actually ban an ideology even in heavily authoritarian countries. Doubly so when it's something that's really hard to define, like Fascism. And no, the Ur-fascism paper isn't even the final word on that subject.

[-] snoons@lemmy.ca 88 points 3 days ago

IMO it's because the western oligarchs are making bank selling military tech to israel.

[-] antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml 36 points 3 days ago

This is it. Israel is too profitable for them to detox from. They get to test out sick new tech to spy on and abuse their citizens, they get to put pressure on nations in the surrounding area with resources they want, and just the sheer amount of money selling weapons in general.

It's one of the most lucrative grifting exercises the western nations have ever designed.

[-] snoons@lemmy.ca 8 points 3 days ago

I wonder how much the "ignore your genocide" fee is.

[-] Maeve@kbin.earth 7 points 3 days ago

Pretty big, when you consider AIPAC* and propaganda. https://www.informationliberation.com/?id=65051

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[-] bitjunkie@lemmy.world 13 points 2 days ago
[-] titanicx@lemmy.zip 31 points 3 days ago

Looking at America, obviously Nazism isn't banned, we have elected a ton of the fuckers.

[-] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 11 points 3 days ago

Zionism unlike the Nazis is not a threat to western democracy. They want a Jewish state in the Middle East, which is not part of the West. As long as the West is not involved, it usually does nothing or just some arms export bans on the countries and some sanctions on leaders. Currently that is happening in Sudan, which is about as bad as Gaza, but has really nothing to do with the West. There is nothing about it in the news at least in the West.

The real intressting part is more that the West is not sitting on the sitelines, but is somewhat aiding Israel. It obviously depends on the country and some do not do it at all. However even so, you see Western countries moving away from Israel. All but the US that is.

[-] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

The only thing that might be "surprising" for some in the support for Israel by Governments in the West (not to be confused with the general population, which just about everywhere seems to be far more anti-Genocide than the politicians) is how it massivelly contrasts which the last decades of talk of Freedom & Democracy from the politicians as well as the long running official posture towards the last bunch of Genocidal Ethno-Fascists - the NAZIs - which was mainly justified on their ethnic cleansing atrocities.

For those who all along were suspicious of the former words being nothing more than self-serving propaganda from some Western nations to excuse them de facto imposing their will on the people of other lands, usually to take their stuff (most commonly, Oil), and the latter being the useful parts of the truth whilst the inconvenient parts (like, for example, how Churchill himself was a Genocider or how the US profited from the War and only really entered it because of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor) were as much as possible not talked about, none of what's going on is surprising, except perhaps the pleasant surprise of the reactions of the actual population (not the politicians, especially not the governing ones) in several such countries, often going against the will of the power elites and the heavy propaganda being deployed to convince them otherwise (for example, for all the Genocide-support of the UK Government and the BBC, not that long ago there was a demonstration with half a million Britons against the Genocide - think about it: 1.5% of the British population came out in a demonstration which is entirelly for the good of somebody else, not themselves, so 100% a question of Principle).

The politicians in general are and always have been Sociopaths, but on this which is a massive issue of Moral and Principle (it's hard to come up with a stronger issue of Moral and Principle than the mass murder of children), most of the population are not Sociopaths nor are they following the Sociopaths, even in those countries were they are swamped by pro-Genocide Propaganda, some of which quite subtle and using techniques from Psychology to try and manipulate people's perceptions.

[-] Grizzlyboy@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 days ago

Are you writing about Russia?

[-] LittleBorat3@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

How do you even define that? Why is pro Russianism not banned?

What should they do after you have been found guilty of Zionism?

PS Nazism ist not banned, it's alive and well.

[-] Litebit@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)
[-] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

What Israel is doing nowadays IS different from what the NAZIs did: the Zionists aren't yet attacking the "superior" races.

The Humanitarianism in Western "Democracies" was always performative, the least democratic the nation the more performative it was, which I why generally you see the most support for Israel in the countries with the least democratic voting systems like the US and the UK (though present day Germany is a bit of an exception to this since they have a mixed voting system with a Proportional Vote component).

Way back in the beginning of NAZIsm the European and American elites loved the NAZIs and their ideas (for example, there is a picture of young British Princess Elizabeth, later Queen Elizabeth, being taught how to do a NAZI salute by her uncle, the then King) and it was only when the NAZIs attacked other Europeans that they turned against the NAZIs. This actually makes lots of sense as the NAZI ideas of the inherent superiority of some over others, especially along ethnic lines, were normalized in early XXth Century American and European society and very popular amongst the old-wealth elites (which naturally saw themselves as inherently superior to the rest, as that explained their higher status and priviledges in their societies - they deserved to be born into wealth because they were superior people)

We're looking back at the NAZIs from the end of a long track that included a period of propaganda heavilly against them which was necessary to inspire the population to support the war effort against them - in the period betwen then and now all the shit they did came out and none of it was reframed to seem justifiable (as is being done right now for the Zionist Genocide by many politicians and news media), quite the contrary: through some of the most powerful means to do so - dramatic films - we were made to experience and empathize with some of the pain of the victims of the Holocaust, mainly the Jewish (curiously, that of the Roma and Sindi was pretty much ignored) as well as repeatedly made to feel pride in the actions of the men and women that fought against the NAZIs in WWII and in the Resistance movements in places like France (just compare the portrayal of the Resistance Française to how Hamas is being portrayed)

I have little doubt that had the NAZIs just sticked to exterminating "lesser races" (like in the eyes of just about every Racist out there the Zionists are doing), the "pragmatism" (read, treating Principles as secondary to the Economic interests of the elites and themselves) of those in "Democratic" governments would have a lot of them justifying, reframing, denying and excusing the murderous actions of the NAZIs and claiming they didn't really do a Genocide, same as they do now for the murderous actions of the Zionists.

By the way, this also explains the massive difference in the reaction to the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the reaction to the Israeli Genocide in Gaza, even though the latter is thousands of times more murderous for civilians.

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[-] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 15 points 3 days ago

Capitalist countries rarely enforce their policies on right wing extremism. Fascism is a guard dog of capital they think they can keep leashed. In the 20th century that guard dog was pointed east so that it could harm the communists which threatened capital then. Today that guard dog is used to control resources in west asia and hide the dirtier work of imperialism that the west doesn't want as seen on their hands. They can't ban zionism because they need Israel and zionism is foundational to Israel.

[-] theywilleatthestars@lemmy.world 20 points 3 days ago

Because being involved in international politics at the state level has a similarly effect on one's morals as the One Ring

[-] Comrade_Spood@quokk.au 13 points 3 days ago

Because those same countries were never ideologically opposed to fascism in the first place. America was a major inspiration for Hitler, namely in its jim crow laws and eugenics. Before world war 2, America loved Hitler. And the western powers are the reason why Zionism exists as an influential ideology to begin with. Britain gave the land for zionists to colonize to begin with. All of these same countries also committed the same atrocities themselves when colonizing places like the Americas, Africa, and Asia. Liberal governments have never been opposed to colonialism, genocide, or fascism.

[-] dataprolet@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 3 days ago

Because Zionism is not per se a problematic thing let alone comparable to Nazism. It's basically the idea that Jews should have their own nation in any form or shape. It's a national liberation movement.

What Netanjahu and his racket is making out of it is Religious or Revisionist Zionism specifically. And it's at least slightly problematic comparing that to Nazism as well.

[-] Feyd@programming.dev 17 points 3 days ago

t’s basically the idea that Jews should have their own nation in any form or shape.

Honestly I don't see how ethnonationalism is a positive idea no matter what the ethnicity is

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[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 9 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I mean, there's also the whole issue of the planned site for the state being occupied, and not even wanting to share with the original inhabitants.

Less problematic than Nazism, though? Sure.

[-] biofaust@lemmy.world 6 points 3 days ago

I mean, before starting with Zyclon-B, also the Nazis wanted the Jews to just move to Madagascar.

So I really just see a temporal offset.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

It's not uncommon for ethnic conflicts in general, but there's a lot of extra dimensions in the Nazi case. The Jewish conspiracy that handed WWI to the Entante, and was also behind communism somehow, was always a centerpiece of their whole ideology. And obviously, Nazis didn't just go after Jews. They make up about half of the Holocaust and are dwarfed by random war casualties, often civilian. If they won the plan was to kill a good share of all Slavs and bring back slavery for the rest.

There's nobody more recent I'd say are on the same tier except maybe ISIS.

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[-] kreskin@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

depends entirely on how you see the concept of zionism. If you limit it to jews thinking they need a homeland, fine. It you think it means they need a homeland and it needs to be where a bunch of people already live now, then thats clearly a huge problem. Ben Gurion said it had to be on the site of the old kingdom, and the people there needed to be driven out. Thats ethnic cleansing and it has led to genocide and untold oppression and crimes against humanity. Its currently worse than the nazis because the rank and file israelis know exactly the severity of crimes going on in their name, which was not the case for nazi germany.

[-] dataprolet@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 1 day ago

That last part is historically false and a bad comparison.

[-] kreskin@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Well, in the end its not going to be up to you how this ends. So think whatever hasbara nonsense you want.

[-] dataprolet@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 day ago

It's easy to just call things you disagree with "Hasbara", right?

[-] kreskin@lemmy.world 1 points 7 hours ago

yes, it is easy to call supporters of war crimes and mass murder Hasbara, its true.

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[-] collar@lemmy.world 15 points 3 days ago

Nazism isn’t “banned” per se, at least in the U.S. as the First Amendment does not allow for viewpoint discrimination, however repugnant a viewpoint might be. But the First Amendment does not protect against cultural, social, or other forms of non-government backlash for those who support disgusting ideologies like Nazism.

So there is no “banning” that could take place of the Zionist viewpoint, if we were to consider it on par with Nazism. By and large in the U.S., Zionism and Nazism are not seen as equally repugnant viewpoints in the cultural landscape, hence the difference in how supporters of these views are treated. Hope that makes sense.

[-] Mrkawfee@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

Europe is America's bitch and America is israel's bitch

[-] mrdown@lemmy.world 13 points 3 days ago

because Nazis was the enemy and declared war on them while Zionists are the west allies.

[-] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

Zionism was originally an idealistic thought and evolved into something unrecognisable today. It was supported by most people across the world before. Zionism is inspired by nationalism, as was Nazism. If we bring your logic to its ultimate conclusion, then it goes to the circular questioning as to why is nationalism not been banned, despite causing so much harm and atrocity? Why is African nationalism not banned? Or Indian nationalism? Or Ukrainian nationalism? Even the history of nationalism has started with the best intentions. As had happened with most ideologies, however, they don't end well. I think even the the mildest form of nationalism will eventually end up extreme. Nationalism is making a pact with the devil and expecting the due will never come. That is what happened on German nationalism leading to Nazism, and Israeli nationalism leading to Zionism. And soon, American nationalism leading to MAGA nationalism.

[-] kreskin@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

No actually it had always been considered a pretty dangerous far right idea, right up until the state of Israel was founded and then anti zionists became the fringe.

[-] _cryptagion@anarchist.nexus 9 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Well, at least in the US, Israel “donates” money via groups like AIPAC to politicians and scores them lucrative business deals in return for political favors and financial aid to Israel, using taxpayer money.

Which they turn around and give a part of it back to the politicians in their next bribe. It’s massively profitable for both Israel and the US politicians, as well as the military contractors who make the weapons the US “sells” to Israel.

In short, Israel helps US politicians embezzle taxpayer money legally for their personal gain.

[-] Swordinferno@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago

Well, at least here in the US it's because our politicians are openly bribed by Israel.

[-] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 3 points 3 days ago

The Zionists are in charge of CIA, and CIA is in charge of every democracy. Democracies not sufficiently supportive of NATO/Israel are rogue authoritarian regimes with rigged elections, that need more CIA NGOs, and media takeover, there to help.

I am not sure how correct you are but you are probably more correct than a lot of responses.

[-] kbal@fedia.io 8 points 3 days ago

Because... gestures at wikipedia. It's a long story.

[-] AA5B@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

Old Zionism is good Zionism. Most of my life, Zionism was seen as good. After the atrocities of wwii, it was quite reasonable to support a Jewish state where they could defend themselves. For the next half century as various surrounding countries vowed to destroy them and kill them all, Zionism as the goal of a Jewish homeland seemed like a good thing.

But now Zionism is the aggressor, rather than defender, the perpetrator rather than victim. They have their own country to defend themselves and it’s mostly accepted by their neighbors but wtf are they doing to Palestinians? How can they not look back on their own history to wwii and not be horrified by what they’ve become?

[-] plant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 2 days ago

Zionism has never been good

The nakba was in 1948. So Nazis would be okay if they only did a nakba and then stretched it out over 60 years? US middle school explanation

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[-] ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

"Western democratic" countries love their manifest destinies and their Lebensraums. The reason they, after a lot of infighting, mostly agreed the Nazis were bad is that they also did it to white people. Zionists are just continuing that proud tradition, now on a target they agree is subhuman, so it's illegal to be against it.

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this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2025
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