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Why is train data shared with the Belgian gov? (lemmy.sdf.org)
submitted 2 weeks ago by ciferecaNinjo@fedia.io to c/Law@europe.pub
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(cross-posted from !opendata)

In Belgium, the national train service runs a protectionist bot-hostile tor-hostile website that chains users to an enshitified js-plagued GUI webapp. You can only query one day and one destination at a time. It’s the typical shit-show that consumers give in to for this kind of website.

HOWEVER, Belgium’s open data law requires the gov to share any data they get with the public. And for some reason the gov maintains a DB of the train routes and schedules -- which means everyone gets the raw data as a bullshit-free CSV file (but sadly no prices, which fucks everything up as far as being able to avoid the enshitified web entirely).

Does anyone know /why/ the gov gets that data? It would be useful to know what law compels SNCB to share the info because I wonder if other data can be liberated through the same mechanism (such as bus routes, flights, rideshares, etc). My first thought was customs and immigration must have a need-to-know, but the dataset covers both directions and IIRC it only has good coverage of domestic routes not international (strange).

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[-] python@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago

I'm not Belgian, but my best guess would be that the government is involved in the train infrastructure because train tracks are one of those "natural monopolies" that need to be closely regulated to make sure the company that owns the tracks doesn't abuse that power.
At my dayjob I program stuff for the German Power Grid and Energy Market, and since that is a "natural monopoly" as well (you can't really have competing energy producers just lay their own power lines everywhere), there are a lot of laws about what data can go where and what data has to be publicly accessible. "Accessible" can totally be a shitty JS frontend that delivers data in an inconsistent, bewildering format (i.e the DVGW Market Participant list). Sounds a lot like what you describe here

[-] ciferecaNinjo@fedia.io 2 points 2 weeks ago

I actually could not find the law. I’m a bit confused because Belgium supposedly has an exceptional open data law. But at the same time there is an EU Directive (2019/1024) which requires all member states to have an open data law. I cannot find Belgium’s implementation of this law. But in any case, Germany should have implemented the directive to ensure the data is machine readable:

Article 14
Specific high-value datasets and arrangements for publication and re-use
1.
The Commission shall adopt implementing acts laying down a list of specific high-value datasets belonging to the
categories set out in Annex I and held by public sector bodies and public undertakings among the documents to which
this Directive applies.
Such specific high-value datasets shall be:
(a) available free of charge, subject to paragraphs 3, 4 and 5;
(b) machine readable;
(c) provided via APIs; and
(d) provided as a bulk download, where relevant.
Those implementing acts may specify the arrangements for the publication and re-use of high-value datasets. Such
arrangements shall be compatible with open standard licences.
The arrangements may include terms applicable to re-use, formats of data and metadata and technical arrangements for
dissemination. Investments made by the Member States in open data approaches, such as investments into the
development and roll-out of certain standards, shall be taken into account and balanced against the potential benefits
from inclusion in the list.
Those implementing acts shall be adopted in accordance with the examination procedure referred to in Article 16(2).
The Commission shall adopt implementing acts laying down a list of specific high-value datasets belonging to the
categories set out in Annex I and held by public sector bodies and public undertakings among the documents to which
this Directive applies.
Such specific high-value datasets shall be:
(a) available free of charge, subject to paragraphs 3, 4 and 5;
(b) machine readable;
(c) provided via APIs; and
(d) provided as a bulk download, where relevant.
Those implementing acts may specify the arrangements for the publication and re-use of high-value datasets. Such
arrangements shall be compatible with open standard licences.
The arrangements may include terms applicable to re-use, formats of data and metadata and technical arrangements for
dissemination. Investments made by the Member States in open data approaches, such as investments into the
development and roll-out of certain standards, shall be taken into account and balanced against the potential benefits
from inclusion in the list.
Those implementing acts shall be adopted in accordance with the examination procedure referred to in Article 16(2).

(shitty paste but readable enough)

[-] Lyra_Lycan 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

(but sadly no prices, which fucks everything up as far as being able to avoid the enshitified web entirely)

Usually the trip has to be made (i.e. attending the workplace or meeting friends), and currency has poisoned humanity, so knowing the price beforehand isn't necessary. Like, even if you know the cheapest loaf of bread is 12¢ higher than last week, you're still going to buy bread. Perhaps next time you may choose to alter your diet or your mode, but there's few practical alternatives. Especially when one of the cheapest modes of transport is already your main.

[-] ciferecaNinjo@fedia.io 1 points 2 weeks ago

currency has poisoned humanity,

Not sure what you mean by that.

Regarding pricing, trains are often not the cheapest. On long-haul trips airfare usually beats train fare. And on short hauls Flixbus pricing is unbeatable. Trains have their niche but for years I have quit checking train fare because of enshitification and shenanigans, making it hard to get pricing data.

this post was submitted on 17 Sep 2025
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