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The state of Linux phones in 2025 (sh.itjust.works)
submitted 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) by muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works to c/linux@lemmy.ml
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Linux phones are still behind android and iPhone, but the gap shrank a surprising amount while I wasn’t looking. These are damn near usable day to day phones now! But there are still a few things that need done and I was wondering what everyone’s thoughts on these were:

1 - tap to pay. I don’t see how this can practically be done. Like, at all.

2 - android auto/apple CarPlay emulation. A Linux phones could theoretically emulate one of these protocols and display a separate session on the head unit of a car. But I dont see any kind of project out there that already does this in an open-source kind of way. The closest I can find are some shady dongles on amazon that give wireless CarPlay to head units that normally require USB cables. It can be done, but I don't see it being done in our community.

3 - voice assistants. wether done on device or phoning into our home servers and having requests processed there, this should be doable and integrated with convenient shortcuts. Home assistant has some things like this, and there’s good-old Mycroft blowing around out there still. Siri is used every day by plenty of people and she sucks. If that’s the benchmark I think our community can easily meet that.

I started looking at Linux phones again because I loathe what apple is doing to this UI now and android has some interesting foldables but now that google is forcing Gemini into everything and you can’t turn it off, killing third party ROMS, and getting somehow even MORE invasive, that whole ecosystem seems like it’s about to march right off a cliff so its not an option anymore for me.

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[-] cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de 108 points 3 months ago

Missing those things would be a feature for me.

I'm much more worried about having a usable battery life and having basic phone functions like WiFi calling and MMS work.

[-] muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works 27 points 3 months ago

I see vo-LTE generally doesn’t work at all either.

[-] i_am_hiding@aussie.zone 11 points 3 months ago

I agree that missing these things are features IMO.

Typing this reply from SailfishOS with working VoLTE, MMS and all the things. Occasionally I have to restart a service but overall its pretty good

[-] eugenia@lemmy.ml 24 points 3 months ago

Tap-to-pay and car assistance are must-have in today's world. 10-15 years ago, no. Today, yes. Bank apps is the other thing that can't be done either (because bank apps want a "certified" system to run on). Here in Greece, it's required you have a bank app on your phone to go with your daily life.

Yes, we all want a simpler life, like it was in the past, so we can envision an OS system that "it's good enough". But reality is not on our side. Linux as an open source community phone OS, made by non-commercial/non-corporate entities, can't be an OS for the masses. It just won't tick any boxes for them in today's world. The current Linux phone OSes could be contenders 15 years ago, but not today.

[-] cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de 29 points 3 months ago

I've never used tap to pay. I don't want any banking info on my phone. In the US, we don't need any payment apps. Cash and cards work just fine and never run out of battery power.

There's no way I would ever connect my phone to a modern car with anything other than an aux cable or a bluetooth adapter that plugs into the headphone jack. They gather up all the data they can an do who knows what with it.

[-] eugenia@lemmy.ml 18 points 3 months ago

The US is not the world though. That's something Americans need to learn. And having a solution for a single country does not work in the long run for that project. Not in the domain of OSes and phones. Either it's universal, or it's doomed to be a niche thing.

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[-] NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip 22 points 3 months ago

Are they must haves? I don't use tap to pay, pretty useless feature for me.

Cars? I don't want or need android auto. Bluetooth is the only thing I care about.

Navigation on the device is good enough for me, it doesnt need to use the screen.

I have no interest in mobile banking, but that could be an issue if people are used to sending money to each other instantly via a bank app.

[-] Sl00k@programming.dev 13 points 3 months ago

Absolutely must haves for me personally, I use each probably daily. I don't carry any cards with me and exclusively use tap to pay.

[-] tiramichu@sh.itjust.works 15 points 3 months ago

Tap to pay is a choice, with a viable alternative.

You could choose to NOT use tap to pay, carry a bank card, and it would have basically no impact on your ability to conduct your life.

But I agree the banking app itself is a big problem, and something that cannot be lived without.

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[-] eugenia@lemmy.ml 12 points 3 months ago

If you actually see what needs each country has for phones (by law), and also what needs normal users have, you would change your mind. It's not just about one user here, one user there that doesn't need these features, but the whole. I have an e/OS Murena phone (very private foss android fork) for example that I can't use here in Greece because it doesn't do banking (the bank app doesn't work). Additionally, here in Greece we need gov apps (e.g. to get prescriptions, and to not have our ID with us all the time). These don't run on "foss" versions of android (let alone clear linux OSs).

[-] NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip 12 points 3 months ago

Yeah that would make me pretty damn angry. What about people who don't have phones at all, what are they supposed to do?

No country should require the technology of 2 monopolies by law.

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[-] null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 3 months ago

"must-have" is subjective.

Yes these things are required to achieve wide spread adoption but I personally could do without them.

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[-] asudox@lemmy.asudox.dev 59 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I think problem number 1 might be solvable if GNU Taler succeeds in europe as the digital euro backend. https://taler.net/

Of course this would only apply to people in the EU, but who knows, others might follow.

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[-] RedstoneValley@sh.itjust.works 44 points 3 months ago

It's an interesting discussion to witness in these posts: convenience vs privacy and control.

The convenience and integration you get with commercial products like IOS or Android comes at a price. Everything that matters to you on a daily basis bundled together in one convenient package means that all things which define you as a person are conveniently interconnected for corporations to sell out your data for everyone who wants it.

GPS: your current whereabouts at any moment in time and a complete history of where you have been in the past

Payment functions: what you are buying and where you have bought it

Communication (Messengers, Phone): Who you communicate with and what you are talking about

Photos and Videos: Real life evidence from all the stuff mentioned above.

Web Browsing: Interests and Needs which will be used against you in a totalitarian surveillance state, at a glance

If you in 2025 still think this convenience is there to please you as a consumer I have bad news for you.

Convenience and interconnection of services look nice and useful but at the same time they're a privacy nightmare that makes Orwell's 1984 look like a bedtime story for children.

What this all comes down to: Strictly airgapping the boundaries between the different services is the only way to have a modicum of privacy. Photos do not belong in a cloud controlled by someone you don't know and should be taken from a separate device. Navigation belongs on a separate device with no internet connection, payment should not be done with a personal identifier at all (if avoidable) etc. Living your life this way might seem terribly inconvenient, but as someone who was alive at a time where all this convenience didn't exist I can tell you it has its advantages too. You'll rediscover what really matters.

[-] guismo@aussie.zone 22 points 3 months ago

That's a bit extreme. Some of those are not linked.

Yes you can not have cloud pictures without having to trust the server. But you can have an open source, inspected system that uses gps without any related data being shared. Gps doesn't send data, it's the system choice to create a way to send it to someone. You can have a Linux phone that doesn't chose to do that.

You can have convenience with privacy, but the companies offering those services don't want that, nor do the consumers care.

And those consumers would not care about a Linux phone.

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[-] Core_of_Arden@lemmy.ml 42 points 3 months ago

Don't want or need any of those things you mention. I want a phone, I want to be able to send messages, I want GPS and a camera. Good battery life, wifi and enough memory and storage... And then privacy...

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[-] EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted 38 points 3 months ago

1 - tap to pay

I still don't see why phone-based tap-to-pay is even a good thing. What, I should hand over all my financial credentials to Google or Apple or Microsoft in addition to my bank? I think not. I'll just keep using a physical card, thank you. (Which, by the way, can often still use tap-to-pay as most modern cards have RFID chips embedded. No different than with your phone, except it's not tied to one of the big oligarchs, even less so if you use a credit union as opposed to a bank.)

2 - android auto/apple CarPlay emulation

Bog-standard bluetooth is more than enough for me.

3 - voice assistants

Why would I need a voice assistant? I can find out information almost as easily just using a search engine. And if I'm driving, I'm not so busy as to be unable to pull over to the side of the road if I absolutely need to check something. Or, you know, get everything ready before I go. At the further risk of yelling at clouds despite my relatively young age (I'm in my early 30s), I think voice assistants and IoT things are largely just fluff that over-complicate things in a world that is already over-complicated.

[-] muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works 23 points 3 months ago

1 - you arent. You dont need to. They have it other ways. Tap to pay is done on device with a revokable token. If the device is stolen, the token can’t be easily accessed and can be remotely wiped at any time, unlike a stolen card which you have to call in to disable and even that doesn’t always go over well. 2 - Bluetooth doesn’t give me maps or a UI to access my music, podcasts, etc. 3 - feature parity wins people over. You aren’t going to bring people in to the ecosystem by selling on having less. You can sell on mandating less, but opening with “here are the things a Linux phones CANT do” will never get this off the ground.

[-] guismo@aussie.zone 10 points 3 months ago

That's the problem. The things you think "people" need is what they already have and it can't be different. "I want to trust everything on a company online but I want my data to be private and safe." You have to choose. For those people who think they "need" what you say, they already have apple and Google.

Just like Linux was never meant to replicate windows "features" like cortana and others, and it didn't, and it works for those who don't want those things which is why they want Linux.

The requirements for Linux to have your "needs" would make me not want it, and then it would just be a poor version of apple without the trillions of dollars that come with it. It wouldn't please either side.

The things open source people care will always be a minority. It's sad but it's the reality.

[-] Sl00k@programming.dev 10 points 3 months ago

The requirements for Linux to have your "needs" would make me not want it,

This is a ridiculous thing to say about something as frivolous and nonmandatory as NFC tap to pay & being able to use a Maps app in your cars dash.

[-] guismo@aussie.zone 9 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

It's not the existence of the option. It's the requirements it brings.

Which companies will this phone need to shake hands for that to work? What price will they have to pay? What risks does it bring to my privacy on that phone? What requirements will they have? Banks, car companies, credit card companies etc are not the kind of company I want to see involved in my system.

If magically you can have those agreements without any risk for me, then I'm happy with it. But it's impossible. You want a different product than mine with those needs.

I need freedom and trust in my system and I would like convenience. You need convenience and would like freedom and trust. It's a matter of how much you have to sacrifice of one to get the other. It's a personal choice.

For example, even before Android shitified itself, tap to pay wouldn't work if you have root or most custom roms. Is it the price I have to pay for your option? Limit how I can use my phone so that Banks can trust it? Imagine if I couldn't use sudo on Linux because someone wants to bend over to a bank?

I would look for a different system.

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[-] pfr@lemmy.sdf.org 35 points 3 months ago

I switched to GrapheneOS like 4 years ago and at first I was bummed that I could no longer tap my phone to pay. But it's fine. I still go out with my wallet in my pocket, so it's no problem to just tap my bank card really... I'll take privacy over convenience thanks

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[-] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 31 points 3 months ago

I already don't have any of those things on my de-googled android. I'm used to it. Sure, they would be nice, but it's not a dealbreaker that I have to tap a card instead of my phone, or use Bluetooth instead of carplay, or type on my phone instead of talking to it.

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[-] Stez827@sh.itjust.works 28 points 3 months ago

Everyone here just saying "oh I don't use that therefore no one needs it and should just lose it and switch to a Linux distro" is not helping anyone. This person told us their requirements to switch. How hard is that to understand for anyone. They also told us the requirements of most of the population. This concept should not be so hard to understand. Everyone has features they need in certain products. Some people don't care how headphones sound they just care that they make sound others are really picky audiophles. It's all preference

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[-] leastaction@lemmy.ca 26 points 3 months ago

Actually I don't need any of those things you mention. It may be a mistake to assume that Linux phones should imitate Google/Apple phones.

[-] OboTheHobo@ttrpg.network 12 points 3 months ago

Obviously this is subjective, but I use android auto all the time and something similar for a linux phone would be really nice for me. Don't dismiss them just cause you wouldn't use them

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[-] the_abecedarian@piefed.social 24 points 3 months ago

Whatever you personally think about these features, you'll never convince the general public to do without them. We need widespread linux phone adoption as table stakes to affect our mobile world.

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[-] monovergent@lemmy.ml 24 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Seeing where desktop Linux was just less than 10 years ago and where it is now gives me optimism for mobile Linux. But I suspect the overlap between developers and users of those 3 features is pretty small, so they might be a ways out.

I was about to suggest getting a head unit that isn't tied down to CarPlay or Android Auto, but then I realized I drive a really old car from the days you'd easily take out the faceplate or the whole unit to deter theft.

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[-] glitching@lemmy.ml 19 points 3 months ago

huh? which linux phone got useful since you'd stop looking? I run pmOS edge on competent hardware with lotsa RAM and fast storage and that thing isn't even close to being usable in everyday life.

just basic stuff, like turn it on and it works. the keyboard works. an intuitive UI that you use while walking and dodging other pedestrians. a rock-solid base that doesn't freeze and stutter with the menial-est of tasks.

the three things you mention couldn't be farther from my mind if I wanted to.

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[-] doomsdayrs@lemmy.ml 18 points 3 months ago

Someone did do some work on reimplementing the Android Auto Client Server API.

Just needs time and interest.

https://github.com/tomasz-grobelny/AACS

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[-] gravitywell@sh.itjust.works 17 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

How old are you that you "need" these things.

Is not being able to use tap to pay, or having to plug in an aux cable really that big of an inconvenience?

[-] jqubed@lemmy.world 26 points 3 months ago

Phone projection for navigation has been significantly better than any built-in navigation on any car I’ve ever driven. The vehicle screens are typically larger than a phone screen so that’s a really nice feature to me.

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[-] muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works 19 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

By that logic, I dont need a phone on me at all times and should just go back to a landline, pay cash for everything, and damn everything convenient.

Some of us use these things and we want to switch to a system free from powerful tech bros. People like you tell us we are a problem for wanting features. That’s a ridiculous thing.

I’m not going to screw with a cell phone while driving. Using the large screen I can quickly glance at, tap what I need or use a voice command on and get my eyes back on the road makes far more sense.

[-] gravitywell@sh.itjust.works 11 points 3 months ago

Im not saying its a problem to want features, just saying its sacraficing freedom for convience, its a choice.

If you really wanted to use a Linux phone, there are options. You would have to adapt, you would have to use non-standard solutions, but in the long run you'd have more freedom because of those sacrifices in convenience.

None of the 3 things you mention was common place 10 years ago, its not that much of a setback to carry cash or a card, or to use a dedicated device for navigation. Its fine if you dont want to do that but dont act like you can't live without tap2pay or a voice assistant if you really wanted to.

[-] idefix@sh.itjust.works 10 points 3 months ago

Tap to pay is essential to me. I never carry anything more than my phone, so no credit/debit card.

[-] gravitywell@sh.itjust.works 10 points 3 months ago

So what happens if your phone is lost or stolen or damaged? How would you pay for a new phone?

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[-] bzxt@lemmy.ml 16 points 3 months ago

By tap to pay, you mean things like Apple pay and Google pay? We don't have that on degoogled androids, let alone on Linux phones...

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[-] HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml 15 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Are those actually the only things you find lacking? If so that's really good, practically the same as using LineageOS without any Google services.

I don't use any of the stuff you mentioned and might have to consider Linux mobile as a daily driver if it's that good. Especially if Google kills custom ROMs, it sounds like the people already running them would feel right at home switching to Linux mobile.

More importantly, how's the app situation? Can people generally expect most of the desktop GTK or Qt apps they're familiar with to be usable on a phone form factor? Is there a reliable way to run Android APKs on regular Linux now? At the very least F-droid apps?

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[-] solrize@lemmy.ml 15 points 3 months ago

I don't use any of the "needs" you mention (phone payments, carplay, voice anything) and can't see any of them as necessary. I can see thinking of them as cool, but that is different. I don't particularly think they're cool, but that's just me.

That said, Linux is mostly a desktop system with a CLI and some GUI tools. Phones as we know them have considerably different requirements. Linux could be underneath it all, like it is in Android, but at the end there is a lot more besides LInux and its apps.

I did use Meego/Maemo for a while (Nokia N900 and N9) and they had nice aspects, but the phones were way too small and slow.

[-] communism@lemmy.ml 14 points 3 months ago

tap to pay

I don't see why the Linux kernel couldn't add support for NFC devices or someone couldn't write a driver. I always pay for everything in cash anyway.

voice assistants

I know there are foss and local-only voice assistants for Android so it is possible. You'd be limited by the computing power of a phone so eg I imagine running ollama on a phone would be a huge battery drain.

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[-] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 14 points 3 months ago

tap to pay, voice assistants, carplay...everything I hate about modern phones. Don't threaten me with a good time, Linux.

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[-] A_norny_mousse@feddit.org 13 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

62 comments and not a-one mentioned Sailfish OS yet?

Yes, it's not 100% open source, yes, it used to do business with Russia but not anymore since 2022, yes, it only supports a few Sony phones (available cheaply on the used market) but it is a 100% Linux operating system!

It has been my daily driver for 5 years now.

Also, Finland bonus.

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[-] gil2455526@lemmy.eco.br 13 points 3 months ago

All I need is a smartphone that can run all my daily drives. Browsing, messaging, socials, banking, utilities and games. Especially with companies pushing that everything be done through an app instead of available through a browser. The problem is very few companies bother to develop Linux versions of their software.

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[-] furycd001@lemmy.ml 12 points 3 months ago

I don’t really see any of these as deal breakers, because I think the state of Linux phones in 2025 isn’t about being “finished” or “perfect,” it’s about being part of a bigger journey. Every limitation mentioned is just a reflection of where things stand right now, not anything permanent. What kinda excites me is that Linux phones are built around openness, community, and the freedom to adapt, qualities you don’t really get with mainstream options. Sure, there are missing features, rough edges, and some compromises, but none of that outweighs the value of having a device that puts you in control....

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[-] mat@linux.community 12 points 3 months ago

I'm personally really excited for Linux phones and want to move to one relatively soon. They've done amazing work on the experience of using them. What I'd really miss, based off of talking to folks and trying them at conventions, is:

  • battery life. My Pixel 3a lasts over a day on Android, likely much less on pmOS
  • UnifiedPush for notifications. I only see a Matrix client listed as WIP. Every other app (Fediverse, Signal) I would have to keep running in the background
  • Notifications while in sleep mode. Looks like we don't have "Doze Mode" from Android, so only calls & SMS work while asleep
  • Fingerprint sensor. More of a QoL but I kept my phone model specifically for the ergonomics of the sensor on the back, and being able to scroll with it. Communication with the sensor is not yet figured out
[-] DJKJuicy@sh.itjust.works 11 points 3 months ago

Yeah, Android Auto is definitely the thing I didn't think I needed and now can't live without.

I have no idea if there can be a foss alternative that would work with existing cars...

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this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2025
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