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Fun fact, you cannot commit animal abuse on a soybean, coconut, rice, wheat, or oat grains.
Fuck dairy
No fan of dairy either. But soy bean production is very problematic for animals. Especially how its farmed in south america.
So because one country isn't using machines to farm their soybeans and uses animals instead we should ignore the fact that an entire industry commits horrifying abuse across the board?
Because literally everywhere else soybean farming has been mechanized.
No we can not ignore the horrid abuse of animals. It is the reason I pointed out that soybeans ain't cool either. There is a shitton of deforestation happening which is killing animal habitats.
Soymilk is not the solution to the problem. That's all I was saying.
Edit: And I was not talking about mechanization. That was not the point I am tried to make.
Exactly
Oat milk is the GOAT milk.
Another shitty grift, the American economy is at least 50% grift at this point I swear, because there's little consequence for all of this but major profits. I barely want to participate in this economy anymore it's just fucking mental.
I feel like this has been dairy industry standard practice for decades. Is this new?
Grew up in the great plains/midwest around the dairy industry. Had extended family who owned a smaller dairy farm. This all sounds pretty standard. Not saying it's right, but none of it sounds new to me.
I would imagine there were plenty of people who bought modern marketing that was designed to cruelty-wash the dairy industry. The reality is there's no way to insert yourself between an udder and a calf without cruelty, and that's the only way to get cow's milk. Unless we can figure out how to get milk from lab-grown organs, which probably comes with it's own ethical issues.
Coworker has a cow/calf pair. The cow and calf do get separated in the morning, but after milking they are turned out together on pasture for the rest of the day. Of course, most folks aren't lucky enough to have the space or means (or desire) to raise their own food the way they want. I have friends who love milk but cant stand the sight of an udder... funny. In their words, it is "better not to think about it." Wild. My dream has always been to have a homestead, so I cant imagine the thinking...
Cows need to be pregnant to produce milk, so they're artificially inseminated throughout most of their lives.
Also, most people can't properly digest lactose. Only about 30% of the population has the enzyme required, and most of them are concentrated in Europe/North America.
Good thing Fairlife is lactose free then I guess.
Naturally, they might live to 15 to 20 years of age, but
this has never been established, it just sounds shocking.
Wtf? All bovines and ungulates live over a decade in wild habitats, you're just divorced from nature
what jersey cow has ever lived over a decade without protection from elements, protection from predators, protection from disease, feed, water, and veterinary care?
How long would a human survive if they were slaughtered when their efficiency dropped? A 30yo human drops in picking efficiency rate in an amazon warehouse by about 10 to 15%, a cow would've been long time ago made into a burger. How long would you survive without protection?
this doesn't refute what I've said.
treating people like animals is bad.
Right. That's why treating animals inhumanely is bad. Maybe having empathy for other living beings in general would be a better solution.
no one is advocating for inhumane treatment of animals.
Sorry, I thought that was the stance you were taking based on the conversation.
How many Jersey cows have bee n tested in these circumstances?
I don't know of any. which is what I've been saying: the claim I'm objecting to is untested.
Is it truly untested, or do you just lack that particular data?
if you have the data I'll gladly read it
Some numbers for relevance:
American bison lifespan is 10-20 years, african buffalo is 10-25, Indian water buffalo averages 25 years, and guar are around the same.
Now let's look at some heritage breeds of domestic cow:
White park cattle are not unheard of to live around 30 years, highland cattle 15-20, Dexters around the same.
Edit: I forgot the dairy cows... holstein 15-20, jersey around the same, friesian around the same.
It is in the nature of cattle to live at least into their teens. Dairy cattle are treated terribly and bred to overproduce, but they are killed when production drops. A good bull, on the other hand, can be kept around for longer, but most dairies do ai now so they dont even have to have a dangerous bull on site.
As an aside, the entire thing is similar to production hens. A production hen's system gives out early (usually due to reproductive issues or cancer) due to being designed to lay an egg a day regardless of anything else. There is a reason family farms who want pets generally avoid the high production ladies if they value health over production.
do you have any data on the domesticated species surviving without artificial assistance?
Define artificial assistance? If you mean human care like feed and safety, then I fail to see how that is relevant. It's similar to asking if I have data on Boston terrier lifespan without human assistance in the wild. We created these breeds.
The lifespans I gave are lifespans with care (feed, shelter) given in the case of the domesticated species. Im very interested in why you think data on domesticated species living in the wild is relevant, but if you are interested in the hardness of domesticated species, there is an interesting case of a cow escaping the slaughterhouse in Poland to live with a herd of wild bison. No idea what ended up happening, but it caused quite a stir that she survived winter just fine.
the claim is their natural life span is 15 to 20 years, but that's simply untrue. that's an artificial life span.
I think that's being a bit obtuse. It's obvious that "natural" in this context means not cut short by slaughter/disease/etc. The natural lifespan of the human being is what could be said to mean how long a human lives if an early death doesn't take them. Moreover, that range can include the tribal human living without processed food or electricity or the sheltered city dweller living safely alongside their McDonald's.
they could choose to say that, but instead they said natural, implying there are dairy cattle roaming in nature, and we know how long they live. they made a claim that simply isn't evidenced.
tautologically, everything people do is artificial.
this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2025
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