Kinda. I understand the logic behind some stuff, but I still laze around and don't feel like doing them, like exercise.
Why should I live?
Because it's a lot cooler than being dead.
To have a good life to spite those who despise you.
There is no WHY. The moment simply is, and we are all trapped within it, like bugs in amber.
Or something like that
Because in times of oppression, staying alive is a revolutionary act.
Out of spite
To find out why you should live.
My son got a really bad gum infection when he was twelve. From that moment on he brushes his teeth twice a day. We found a video online that detailed how you should brush your teeth from the 70's and he watched it often. I haven't asked but he probably still does.
Okay, now where one can find toothpaste that won't leave a strong mint taste in your mouth for up to a few hours, that is also not one of those kid's toothpastes?
I use Sensodyne brand and I don't feel like the taste lingers very long, I may just be tolerant though because I have used the same brand for years.
That was me with flossing. My parents and childhood dentist always TOLD me to floss, and you just stick the floss between your teeth and that's flossing. I thought it was dumb and didn't do anything to help my teeth so I never really did it. Until as an adult my dental hygienist explained in detail you need to scrape the sides of your teeth with the floss and go up/down the tooth as far as you can without hurting yourself. Then demonstrated on herself, and then asked me to do it in front of her so she could see if I was doing it right. Great lady.
So it was entirely process based and not logic based?
The process didn't jive with the logic... so...
What logic?
I think the logic that clicked is more like "oh, the sides of my teeth need to be brushed, too, and a tooth brush can't get there, hence flossing."
That would make sense for sure. It didn’t read that way to me, so that’s why I was asking.
That's fair, I don't think this was explicitly stated in the comment above.
Hmm. I understand the logic of 'doing job for 8 hrs = get income' but it doesn't do jack shit for my motivation.
Logic doesn’t create motivation. It can help with purpose and reason.
The logic chain is not that simple and stops where you say. Why get income? Why would there be a need for "income"? What is income? Why does it need to be "a job" for 8 hours? And so on.
If you completely illuminate the issue, you'll likely find that no, you don't really understand the logic of "doing job for 8 hrs = get income".
And that's how you become an autistic militant
Oh that's what happened!
Also sitting around 8 hours and not being efficient at all instead of doing stuff when it works and makes sense.
Of course that does not apply to all jobs but most office related things are batshit insane levels of inefficiency. The psychological implications of this are yet another issue.
because that's not logical. especially whet you're in a job that's not actively helping people, like call centers.
Yet so many of the answers I received as a kid was, "because I said so".
Damn my parents sucked in such mediocre ways.
I told my autistic son to stop following a girl around and telling her she is sexy after he got in trouble for doing it. Told him why, and explained how that stalking criminal charges could be brought against him. Explained how an arrest and criminal record would make his life exceedingly difficult.
So he doubled down and threatened the girl's boyfriend instead.
Oh I wish logic and reason applied, I would happily explain ANYTHING in extreme detail. I mean, I have.
I have no idea how to get through to this boy. School is little help, psychologists don't know or won't be bothered to know, therapists are clueless. He's high-functioning in so many ways so most are happy to ignore him--until shit like this comes up.
Being told and understanding are fundamentally different things.
That sounds like there may be some anger management issues in there too... That or he's not as high functioning as you think on the emotional side.
Or maybe he needs a long conversation explaining how others are allowed to be autonomous and it's OK if others have different preferences and relationships. Or that consent is the #1 feature of healthy interactions, and if someone doesn't want you, forcing it is just going to make everyone miserable even if he could snap his fingers and maker her his GF.
did you try asking him to have empathy and understand the girl's position?
...my autistic son...
Autistics still have empathy...
As a parent now myself, I've used the "because I said so" line.
I have a personal rule however. When I've used it, I make a point to sit down and explain why. It might be after we have all cooled off, or after the stress is gone.
It gives them a sense of what went wrong. In the moment, they also know they will get an explanation eventually. Lastly, it keeps me honest. No using it because I can't explain in a way that doesn't make me look bad.
It's worth noting, parenting is HARD. Our generation at least has the advantage of modern information and science. The generations before us were stuck with hearsay and hope. Recognise their mistakes, but try not too judge them too harshly for them.
Exactly! Not NOW! is perfectly reasonable.
The purpose of explaining rules is to give kids the ability to choose to behave intelligently, IMO. If they think rules are arbitrary, which is the impression given by "because I said so", they have no tools to use to make good decisions. Ideally, the explanation happens before things go wrong, to minimize how many times that happens.
Fully agreed on that. It generally only comes out when explaining the rule, in the moment, will either cause compounding issues, or is unfeasible. I've also used it once or twice, while running near my own mental limits.
I'm in the spectrum myself, I feel this. But I also have to mention that my experience has shown me that when you go down this road, you might need to argue with an asd person who doesn't get it and wants to keep arguing, and sometimes there's just no time for that. Sometimes we need to recognise when someone else is an expert and defer to their opinion instead of forcing them to be an unwilling and unpaid tutor. If they're not an expert otoh and are just an authority (boss, landlord, whatever) then argue away but recognise that unfortunately there can be consequences for arguing with authority, so be prepared and know when to back down for your own well being
(I want to preface this by saying that I agree with you and am not attempting an argument - I just got on a tangent at one point. Any emotion conveyed in this post isn’t due to/directed toward you or your post, but is a function of how reflecting on the subjects at hand makes me feel.)
As a kid, I wanted to argue even more with authority figures who lacked a clear reason for having authority. An expert on a matter? That makes sense, I’d listen to them. A teacher that actually guides students and respects them? That also makes sense.
But somebody “in charge,” making decisions that seem completely arbitrary or straight-up nonsensical? That didn’t listen or care what others thought, and who demanded respect without ever returning it? We had a mutual hate for each other. The fact they were given authority pissed me off and I saw zero reason to comply with anything they demanded.
… I didn’t get along with most of my school administrators.
Most people shy away from conflict, from what I’ve seen. My fire has been dampened so many times from all different sides and now I’m a tired, 30-something-year-old that wishes she could be as fired-up as she used to be. Because now, we have fascists taking over (or attempting to) all around the world. People here on Lemmy keep insulting Americans for not “fighting back” enough, but they have no idea how bad the compliance conditioning is here.
I refuse to teach blind obedience. I’d rather see kids that question everything and get in trouble for it than ones that will just accept whatever authority tells them. It’s not the kids’ fault the world doesn’t make sense, but teaching them to just accept it as “the way it is” (as the adults in my life always said) does nothing but perpetuate this cycle.
We need more skeptics. We need more action-takers. Those that believe they just “deserve” to have authority need to be challenged, now more than ever (I picked this username for a reason.) To be clear - I say this as an autistic teacher of autistic kids. I understand the risks from both sides, and I know raising autistic kids isn’t easy. But the world doesn’t need more people who give up the good fight just because it’s hard; the world needs more people who point out hypocrisy and injustice, including children who will blithely point out that the emperor has no clothes.
It's important to realize that while autistic people might understand things and act in accordance to that more readily, we are still subject to other human biases including ego. One's ego may prevent oneself from gaining an understanding in the first place.
Yes but similarly I can only fix something after I fully understand how it works.
Truth. People who give some justification for doing things don't understand what I need. I need the actual reason. If that reason doesn't exist then the point of the action doesn't exist.
Difficulty: a sizeable proportion of neurotypical people find it condescending and insulting to have the reason for something explained to them, if it seems like something that an adult should be able to figure out for themselves.
As a consequence of this, they're also not comfortable explaining things that they consider obvious, because they feel like they're being rude themselves, and may even consider requests for such explanations to be confrontational.
Yeah I know, we suck
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