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Hello,

I have been researching about blockchains and stuff and it all seems like a big scam. It's not sustainable and can be replaced by a simple database.

is there any legitimate use cases of blockchains or it is all just a big scam?

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[-] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 1 points 31 minutes ago* (last edited 21 minutes ago)

it cannot really replace a simple database. it has an integrity guarantee. not in the way that data won't get modified accidentally, but that it won't get modified onesided.

the git version control system also uses a kind of a blockchain structure. git was made by the creator of linux. a major difference is that git does not use proof of work for consensus, I think it just does not use anything for that, other than the web server's access control mechanism.
commits are built on top of a large chain of histories, and the commit ID verifies that the current state and the history of it is the exact same when you checkout that commit ID on any other computer. if you go find in the repository a commit made 3 years ago, and change that commit (this is supported by git but not recommended), either the content or the metadata like time of commit, the whole history after that also need to get rewritten to remain valid, and so all those commits will now have a new commit ID

[-] Limonene@lemmy.world 4 points 1 hour ago

The point of the blockchain is to achieve distributed consensus of what's in the database. That way, one entity can't unilaterally change what the database says.

If you have a public non-profit institution maintaining the database, obligated to serve all legal customers, with serious consequences for tampering with it, you can get pretty much everything blockchain can do, for a billionth of the computing power.

But with that system, you would lose these features:

  • partially-anonymous participants
  • service of all customers, even illegal ones
  • immunity to court orders
[-] bluecat_OwO@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago

since a lot of replies branched towards Cryptocurrency, which is where blockchains are implemented the most in. But it isn't the sole purpose of blockchain.

It's a distributed, append only(theoretically), tamper proof data structure. Look up merkle tree, certificate distribution, etc. These comes in different shapes and sizes for storing transaction logs, to keeping track of online identity and false impersonation.

You can implement a blockchain that might not get as power hungry as crypto block chains(because mining), and it's a cool solution in distributed systems

[-] JandroDelSol@lemmy.world 3 points 2 hours ago

blockchains are a solution looking for a problem.

[-] Nibodhika@lemmy.world 4 points 3 hours ago

It absolutely can't be replaced by a simple database, saying that makes me question that you truly understand the technology. Here's the important question, who owns the database and how do you know you can trust them?

Would you trust me to manage a database that holds your money? What about someone who's actively opposing you? How about a foreign nation? That's the thing blockchains solve, a decentralized 0-trust way to have an append only ledger, yes a database can be an append only ledger, but it can't be decentralized or 0-trust, that's the important thing here.

Let me give you a very recent example, Steam has been censored, and has had to remove certain games from their catalog, this happened because PayPal and other payment providers forced their hand. This is the sort of problems that arise from having someone own the database, they can dictate what you do or don't. Let me be extra clear, this sort of censorship is essentially impossible in Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies because no one controls the database.

[-] Gorilladrums@lemmy.world 8 points 8 hours ago

Not really, blockchain technically has been around for almost two decades and there still isn't a good use for them. It's very interesting piece of tech that could potentially be useful, but still isn't in a practical sense.

Think of it this way, blockchain tech is a solution looking for a problem to solve rather than the other way around.

[-] jenesaisquoi@feddit.org 6 points 10 hours ago

Yes. Public append-only data structures. For example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate_Transparency

[-] Manifish_Destiny@lemmy.world 12 points 14 hours ago

Yes. Tracking stock shares would prevent dark pools and naked short selling to some degree.

That's also why it will never happen.

[-] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 6 points 16 hours ago

its always been a ponzi scheme, the people still pedaling it, are right wingers thinking they will still strike it big some day.i once followed a yotbers channel one guy pedal lost 1mil+ from SBF crisis, and hes still doing it to this day.

[-] domdanial@reddthat.com 1 points 30 minutes ago

No less than 8 spelling or grammar mistakes, and barely on topic.

[-] bluecat_OwO@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago

i think op asked for Blockchain not Cryptocurrency

[-] yyyesss@lemmy.world 1 points 10 hours ago

in the spirit of reddit:

*peddling

[-] nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 17 hours ago

it's really difficult to be anonymous with a credit card

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 25 points 1 day ago

It's just a data store (database kind of implies extra features) that's trust-free and decentralised. It's not even the only way to implement one; Ripple for example uses a slightly different scheme.

How has nobody linked the XKCD on this exact question? Randall Monroe compares them in the alt text to grappling hooks: something cool that might have uses, but only in very specific niches. https://xkcd.com/2267/

[-] Agent641@lemmy.world 2 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

Why is mining a nessecary part? Is it only to keep the quantity of units in circulation in check? And why is that nessecary? Is there an equivalent fixed amount of USD that is in circulation?

Why can't it just be a ledger of fixed qty where nodes get paid a fee for handling transactions and keeping the blockchain updated instead of proof of busywork? Why does it need to be so wasteful of electricity? Why is it so slow? Will it ever be as fast and cheap as an osko payment? I can (and have) sent $40,000 to another person from my bank account and it took under 10 seconds for them to receive it, even though they bank with a different entity.

[-] General_Effort@lemmy.world 2 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

Lotsa questions. I'll give brief answers that will be a little incomplete.

Why is mining a nessecary part? Is it only to keep the quantity of units in circulation in check? And why is that nessecary?

Transactions need to be recorded so that it is known who controls how many crypto coins. This service needs to be paid. That is done by creating new coins or alternatively by subtracting a fee from transactions. Creating new coins has the advantage that it spreads coins to people with a stake in the success of the cryptocurrency. If there was only a fee, then you would have to find some other way to get coins to the people wanting to use them.

Crypto is for transferring money outside the banking system and thus beyond the reach of the law. People buy and sell crypto coins for that purpose.

The value of coins depends on how much money people want to transfer and how many coins are on the market. If people want to transfer $10M and there are 10M coins available, then the price of a coin is $1. If there are only 5M coins, then the price is $2. People wanting to transfer money do not need to consider the price. If you want to transfer $20, you buy that amount of coins. It does not matter how many coins that is.

When miners sell new coins, that causes a little bit of inflation. That way, real money is transferred from the users to the miners. If someone holds a large amount of coins, they can extract a lot of money without having to do anything. So people will not be very keen on promoting that currency because that person can skim off the gains. That means it's simply preferable to slowly introduce new coins to a wide audience.

People who "invest" in crypto cause a bit of deflation. They spread real money to the users but there is no actual value created.

Removing coins from circulation increases the price in a purely mechanical way. If the price rises further, they are able to make a profit by selling the coins and skimming off money from the users. That does create an incentive to promote that crypto coin. That's why we are seeing so much crypto spam.

It's not necessary for adoption to increase to see a profit. If other people can be convinced to buy and hold coins, then the price increases mechanically. This makes it possible to skim off more money from actual users than was spread to them by buying the coins. Obviously, that's economically nonsense. It's another fatal design flaw.

instead of proof of busywork? Why does it need to be so wasteful of electricity?

The record of transactions, the ledger, is public and unprotected. You could have different, competing versions of that record. The version that is adopted by the majority is adopted as the correct one. This creates a problem. It would be possible to spam the system with lots of copies of a fraudulent record. Proof of work mitigates that risk. Originally, it was an idea to combat email spam by increasing the cost of sending each mail.

A more efficient alternative would be to only allow a limited number of known entities to keep the ledger. If they attempt manipulation, they can be prosecuted for fraud. That's basically the banking system.

But the whole point of crypto is not to do that. If governments could prosecute the people involved, then they could also be made to crack down on ransomware, drug dealing, tax evasion, and so on.

A more crypto-compatible scheme is proof of stake. Miners have to put up a certain amount of cryptocurrency as a stake. If other miners find that one is not following the rules, then they can be fined. Also, because they own a substantial amount of currency, they can be assumed not to act in ways that harms the network. That would lower the price of their crypto.

Why is it so slow? Will it ever be as fast and cheap as an osko payment?

The overhead necessary to avoid law enforcement means that it will always be slower and more expensive than mainstream systems.

Bitcoin, in particular, is just not suited for such wide adoption. It's actually amazing how well it does actually work, considering its humble origins. Because of the amount of money that rests on its reputation and its decentralized nature, it is extremely difficult to get people to agree on updates.

Is there an equivalent fixed amount of USD that is in circulation?

No. Money is created every time someone takes out a loan and destroyed when it gets paid back. Physical currency (called central bank money) is manufactured as needed.

[-] Tuuktuuk@sopuli.xyz 1 points 8 hours ago

If you make more money, then you have a larger share of all the money in circulation. That means, you are devaluating everyone else's savings and pretty much gaining some of their money.

And there's some system where people who have joined through you, somehow also produce to you some small percentage of the money they mine. So, the ones who got in first are getting richer and richer out of others' work.

[-] General_Effort@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago

Besides money laundering, you mean? Not as such.

Merkle Trees were thought up in the 70ies or so. A blockchain is a Merkle Tree without branches. They are used in a number of application; for example git which predates bitcoin.

The actual innovation behind bitcoin is mining. A payment system needs someone who runs it. Bitcoin introduced a way for these people to get paid by creating new currency for themselves. That way, there is no single entity in charge. There is no contractual relation that would require government enforcement.

If a Merkle Tree is the only thing a blockchain is to you, then it has legit uses. But that was already widely used before a simplified version became called blockchain.

If you're thinking about a bitcoin-type blockchain, then evading government oversight is its sole use. The technical overhead and the economic inefficiencies exist only to obscure identities and legal responsibilities.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

It was an innovative way to use a blockchain/Merkle path, too. Even if you'd argue money but made in a different, harder to police way is a bad thing, it was new.

[-] General_Effort@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

It's really clever. I also think it was unintentional. They did not want to create a money laundering tool but a currency in its own right. That failed.

Also, this scheme only works with money involved. The miners run the system, and they get paid by creating new coins. If they cannot sell the coins to cover their costs, then there is no blockchain.

[-] Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 hour ago

You know at a point there will no longer be a block reward for miners, instead only fees on transactions

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 1 day ago

Sort of? Satoshi had anti-government objectives for sure, although you're right that Bitcoin was supposed to be usable for small and everyday transactions as well.

[-] JumpyWombat@lemmy.ml 98 points 1 day ago

Any application where you want to record something publicly without the possibility to alter it and in absence of a central authority.

A database requires a central authority so it doesn’t cover the same use cases.

[-] bluecat_OwO@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago

this was a no nonsense answer, unlike the others discussing Cryptocurrency ;~;

[-] thedruid@lemmy.world 2 points 9 hours ago

That was.. Very well said

[-] pupbiru@aussie.zone 6 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

i’ll add a concrete example to this… i’ve described a startup i built in another comment but TLDR:

compliance obligations when protecting kids from sexual predators are difficult to prove: sexual abuse usually comes out 30 years later, so standard record keeping is pretty fraught… companies (like the company monitoring compliance - our startup for example) might not exists any more, paper gets lost, database formats become difficult or impossible to read

writing signed proof of compliance to the blockchain is a way of ensuring that an organisation was doing what they could at the time… how this is achieved is tricky for anyone but the source of record, but with blockchain it’s possible (described in the post)

[-] mormund@feddit.org 31 points 1 day ago

Good summary, a few additions from my side:

  • Being public is not required. E.g. banks could form an internal block chain shared only with other banks.
  • Blockchains are a database. An immutable and usually distributed database.
[-] Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 22 points 1 day ago

Also worth noting that the computations don't have to be expensive either, it's only there in cryptocurrencies to artificially limit the number of blocks generated on a public system and tie it into the reward system.

So for a bank, that could be a plain single iteration of a sha256 hash, and once share everyone agrees those were the transactions and you can't go back and change one without having to change the whole chain.

Make it sha1 and you basically have git.

A blockchain is more or less just an append-only database. Or even an append-only replication log with built-in checksums.

[-] msage@programming.dev 3 points 1 day ago

I would argue against blockchains being a database... its more of a 'signed sequential log' than a database.

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[-] tty5@lemmy.world 44 points 1 day ago

Anything that requires a public, immutable database. Land registry would be one example. Notary public for electronic documents would be another.

You can leverage the majority consensus to create a trusted software build system. Each block would be a package build

[-] turmacar@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago

If you have to have someone enforce the land registry or the documents, what is the benefit of the database being zero trust?

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[-] zxqwas@lemmy.world 27 points 1 day ago

Using it as a currency which requires no third party for transactions is a legitimate use case. See current payment processors vs Steam conflict for why it may be a good idea. There are a lot of times when it's not a good idea either.

However the price must be reasonably stable and transaction cost low. Don't think any of the major CCs qualify.

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[-] drmoose@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

Recording data on an "eternal" digital data storage is incredibly useful. You don't need much imagination here but I think we overestimated how much people actually want this and how ok we are with less perfectionist systems given that they work now just fine. Storing something on the web is usually just as good in practice despite being less perfect data store mechanism.

That being said what if we have incredibly important information that is difficult to share or preserve - an immutable blockchain with so much financial security is a really powerful tool here.

Thats what got me into bitcoin at the beginning but disappoingly it never reached the point where it would outcompete non-blockchain tech. Mostly because we live in a better world than many believe 🙃

[-] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 19 points 1 day ago

Some countries are considering using blockchain in the future for their land title registry.

here is an article about it

I read something about potentially using blockchain the future while using onland (ontarios land registry service) but i can't seem to find the page that mentions it.

here is a similar system proposed for Bangladesh

[-] lemmyng@piefed.ca 15 points 1 day ago

There's a few issues with that approach:

  • Blockchains can't forget, but they also need to add new blocks on every period, meaning that there's a lot of idle events that are added to the chain. You can increase the period, but then the chain has more latency. Either way, the disk space needed to store the full chain grows really fast, which becomes a problem when trying to bootstrap a new root node, or backup an existing one.
  • Unless you're trading land titles internationally (read: there's no single trusted authority), blockchains could just be replaced with a regular distributed database and servers.
  • Chains don't offer out of band recovery and error correction.
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[-] Deestan@lemmy.world 19 points 1 day ago

People will easily list a lot of credible legitimate usecases

that are hypothetical

and have remained hypothetical for 18 years.

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this post was submitted on 25 Aug 2025
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