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The hole in the tank is a bullet wound from a successful suicide attempt (lemmy.ml)

submitted 4 days ago by UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml

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[-] slowmorella@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Is the society not saying: "go to therapy" nowadays?

[-] spankinspinach@sh.itjust.works 16 points 4 days ago

My understanding of this problem is that there's still a very strong cultural impetus that males aren't allowed to have/share their feelings. In a way, even "go to therapy" is dismissive, in that the ppl saying it (often those that care about them most) don't want to be bothered to address their feelings, or the precursor(s) to the depression, directly. Acknowledgement is definitely a step in the right direction, but I think there's a ways to go. Just my $0.02

[-] slowmorella@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 4 days ago

ok i will rephrase to: is society not offering real solutions nowadays.

I mean, as a woman, i will probably never understand how it feels to never really/freely be able to share emotions and be vulnerable. I thought this whole problem is somehow getting better or is better nowadays and that society is moving forward, though. Also, if "go to therapy" is dismissive, then what is a better response, i wonder.

[-] djsoren19 2 points 3 days ago

is society not offering real solutions nowadays

no, not really. I see a lot of people pretending there isn't a problem, a lot of people blaming men for the problem, and some really dumb men blaming women for the problem. Mental health for men is still incredibly stigmatized.

[-] spankinspinach@sh.itjust.works 3 points 4 days ago

Haha sorry in advance for a long response, I love psychology and am a strong male mental health advocate :) TL;DR: I don't have the answers, its getting better societally but that doesn't solve it at an individual level, I believe loneliness and being heard are major contributing factors.

I'm hard pressed to give you a good answer on that. I think it's more socially acceptable for men to have feelings, but maybe it's hard for the crop of men 30+ to understand that due to their upbringing, and seek help (it's getting much better for Gen Z, I understand). So maybe the options are there, but the "man up" mindset persists?

There may also be an individual element to it - the willingness to learn about our own feelings after decades of "man up" can be perplexing at best (I've been blessed with some wonderful women in my life and it is still in my blindspot all the time). I understand there are also many women that expect their men to "man up", not to say that's the norm though.

I don't have a good answer for you on the last point either. I think go to therapy is great, but i find that being male and our problems can be wildly isolating and lonely experiences - being told to go to therapy is kind of "take your feelings over there". At the same time, until men are able to build healthier communication with their loved ones, I think it won't be solved (which is where therapy does help).

[-] slowmorella@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I would also think that this "men-up"-mentality is a generational thing and eventually (hopefully) dies out soon (in men and women and anything inbetween). In order for that to happen it would probably help not to reproduce and repeat the belief that the mentality persists (for example by sharing memes that suggest otherwise...maybe i can help with that). You know... be the change you wanna see.

I guess there is also a nasty trend of going backwards and anti-DEI all over the world (in my understanding the E in DEI is suppose to also cover that whole male-mental-health inequality aspect) so that doesn't help.

Regarding the response "go to therapy": i was told the same thing several times and it sometimes felt like "i don't want to listen to your problems anymore" or "go fix yourself, you're not functioning like you're supposed to" and that does hurt. As i grew older i realized that these responders usually mean well and probably were overwhelmed themselves or were simply unable to help or didn't feel qualyfied enough to help. So the message they were unable to transport probably was something arround: "i care for your feelings and i am here for you but also i have limits to be respected and i want you to get the best help you need. Sadly i can not provide this, so i would suggest to seek help of a professional. I will help you as best as i can to make this happen"

Another aspect is (I'm not trying to derail now, or use whataoutism this is just sideaspect or orverlapping development) the somewhat common expectation that women are expected to do care work or emotional labour for free, which sometimes gets disappointed. And maybe there is a trend of women being less willing to do so nowadays. I don't know If that makes sense and one would have to look at actual data on this but i don't even know which field of study collects data on this topic.

any way it seems to be a somewhat complex topic but i stand with the believe that memes shape perception of the world and one can use that to also shape that stupid society for the better (i know i am heavily overestimating the power of memes but one can hope and dream :))

[-] spankinspinach@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I'm sorry I didn't respond sooner, I just wanted to give this the time it deserved :)

I agree the man-up mentality needs to die, or at least be dialed back. It's not inherently bad, tough love is a thing, but our society has taken manning up to an untenable extreme. For the record, I think the meme did an excellent job of putting a truthful light on the current reality - it definitely got us talking!

I agree about DEI, and love your comment about equality. Ppl often forget that equality means for everyone, and I think men are villainized as a general punching bag (punching up?). In this respect, I think men maybe pay a price that is overlooked for the more tangible equity issues (e.g. pay and service access for minorities)? But I'm cautious to bang that drum too hard haha just thinking it through.

I see what you're digging at about therapy, and it's possibly a perception issue on my end. It's hard to tell someone they need therapy at any time, and my sensitivities may just be coming into play there. Therapy can be incredibly helpful.

Women absolutely get saddled with unfair emotional labour. I think it's a bit of a downstream effect of unhealthy male emotions, in that men are taught to clam up and hide from feelings for decades, then get into relationships with women who just want the best for their partners. Men finally have a safe place for the first time in their lives, and BOOM all of it comes out with no skill at managing it haha. I'm not excusing this behavior, it can lead to some bad outcomes. I think there's a balance - ppl in relationships need to do their fair share or emotional labour (relationships aren't always 50/50, sometimes they're 90/10), and men haven't been taught to do their half. But at some point, they also need to take accountability and learn to do their half, dang it (see tough love lol).

All in all, I agree this is a stupidly complex topic, and I agree we proooobably won't fix mens' relationships with the world and themselves in this conversation, but we can try! That said, I'd be very happy if we could find a way to meme our way to a better place for everyone :) thank you for digging into it with me!