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I'm not a mouse, and humans have been eating red meat (whenever they could get it) for literally aeons.
Sure, but they had meat maybe once or twice per week. Nowadays we have meat five times per day.
They ate protein moderately and only enough to satiate their appetite. But if they were using storage methods ranging from hot springs to drying and fermentation they were eating red meat daily for months. Remaining meat was given to dogs (which eat unlimited amounts of protein). Fat was what humans ate in vast quantities. They'd go to extreme lengths to eat all sources of fat and marrow.
Although this study though doesn't make quite the same point that you're making.
The researchers artificially caused IBD in the mice by injecting them with a compound that damages their mucosal layer in the gut.
So what they're saying is that once you have IBD you might want to eat a low protein diet. This is consistent with diets that were used to treat diarrhea (which suggests ibd) such as the BRAT diet.
Nowadays we have meat five times per day.
Who the hell is eating meat 5 times a day? Jordan Peterson??
Let me get this straight. Herbivores shouldn't eat meat‽ Holy crap! this changes everything!
Mice are omnivores like us. That said, just because something is bad for a mouse doesn’t necessarily mean it’s bad for humans.
Well… I guess we’re just not going to bother taking into account that red meat isn’t part of a mouse’s diet? And that maybe they’re going to react poorly when force fed things they generally don’t eat? This type of bullshit science needs to be called out for what it is.
Next, maybe we should see how well whales react if we feed them 3,000lbs of french fries.
I assume you went through the actual published article and have the necessary expertise to come to this "bullshit" conclusion.
I don't really know enough about mouse (and human) gut biome to know what the similarities and caveats are.
Garlic, onions, citrus and beans fuck up and can even possibly kill mice, so it's not a straight comparison by any stretch
A quick google search will tell you what the primary diet of mice is: nuts and berries, small vertebrates and carrion.
Not USDA grade prime rib.
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They intentionally chemically triggered IBD in the mice, how the fuck is this conclusive of anything?
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mice were fed three types of red meat – pork, beef and mutton
I assume most mice don't regularly eat large livestock.
Are mice evolved to eat red meat? The article doesn't really say.
However, there were limitations to the study. As well as it being a mice model [...]
Yes, mice eat red meat.
Mice are omnivores and are opportunistic eaters. They’ll eat whatever they can find.
Mice do not eat that much meat of other mammals.
Giving an over abundance of it, for a long time, will shock the mouse.
What do you think happens when a mouse finds a large carcass in the wild? They just take a few nibbles and then go "that's enough, time for some greens now. Gotta keep my diet balanced". No, they gorge themselves on the opportunistic meal and will return each night until it's gone or inedibly rotten.
The study is fine. The conclusions, interesting. The sudden 'mouse diet & gut-study experts' disagreeing because they don't like it, reminds me of Facebook tbh.
The study is fine as you say, the problem is the news cycle throwing around a very contrived mouse study as anti-meat news for humans.
Humans historically, also didn't eat much meat up until very recently. More recent research suggests our ancient human ancestors were eating far more plants than meat
EDIT: For example:
Here we present the isotopic evidence of pronounced plant reliance among Late Stone Age hunter-gatherers from North Africa (15,000–13,000 cal BP), predating the advent of agriculture by several millennia
This is just not true in the bigger picture of human evolution. That paper focuses on humans in North Africa 15,000–13,000 years ago which is a very tiny snapshot in time and geography.
Eating meat is a major part of what separated archaic humans from other primates; it is theorized that the calories from meat is part of what helped us grow our larger brains. Homo Habilis was eating meat 2.6 million years ago, well before Homo Sapiens even existed. Homo Erectus hunted to the point of wiping out many large herbivores over a 1.5 million year time period. They are meat regularly enough for tapeworms to speciate specifically for us as hosts.
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Isotopic testing shows that early humans primarily subsisted on herbivores and small game, including fish. Please refer to this study for Europe.
Early modern humans also appear to have regularly hunted large herbivores (55–57), but there is also evidence for the use of small game, including fish at some of these sites (15, 16).
Or this study, also from Nature, again studying the first modern humans and late Neandertals in Europe:
based on stable isotopes, the mammoth seems to contribute the major part of the dietary protein of humans in a time range between 50,000 and 30,000 years ago and across wide areas spanning from SW France11 to the Crimean Peninsula53 (Fig. 6, Supplementary Fig. 5–8).
It is inaccurate to state that humans did not eat much meat prior to modern times.
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In the animal study, mice were fed three types of red meat – pork, beef and mutton – every day for two weeks. Then, the researchers triggered colitis (a model for IBD) using a chemical called dextran sulfate sodium (DSS).
They definitely aren't evolved to eat dextran sulfate sodium.
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Next time I meet up with my mouse friends I'll be sure to let them know.
I didn't know we had so many PhD level gastroenterologists on Lemmy, I'm glad we've attracted such an educated community and we're not filled with reactionary nerds who vaguely remember their freshman zoology class.
"i'm not a mouse"
Checkmate nerds
When inconvenient truths arrive about people's preferred habits, they often become instant field experts.
As an aside, mice are opportunistic omnivores - this information can be found with ease. They will eat whatever the fuck they can find and will gladly feed on a cow's carcass. This added context makes the instant field expert comments claiming they're herbivores and that 'this study is obviously bad' even more embarrassing.
Look I'm all for the idea that we eat too much meat currently and all, but are mice really good analogs for humans in this instance? I'm not a scientist of any sort, so I really don't know, but it seems to me like a creature that doesn't naturally eat, like, any red meat would be a bad analog here.
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Personally know multiple carnivores who can't stop shitting themselves and still swear by the diet.
I find that remarkable considering the fact that astronauts would eat high protein foods to minimize their bowel movements because the human body will efficiently absorb highly bioavailable proteins and fat (e.g. from animal sources) it consumes. Considering human feces are 75% water and the remaining 25% are primarily bacterial biomass and plant matter, my guess is the carnivores you know have just started the diet and have upset their stomachs with the sudden change.
fact that astronauts would eat high protein foods to minimize their bowel movements because the human body will efficiently absorb highly bioavailable proteins and fat (e.g. from animal sources) it consumes.
To minimize their bowel movements, astronauts had a high-protein, low-residue diet — think steak and eggs and other foods that are don't make a lot of waste after they are absorbed by the body.
Wow, that is a fun fact! I had no idea. That is going into trivia night
I am a carnivore, and I talk to other carnivores. In the group people who only eat animal based food, and no plants: Our poop is consistent, infrequent (1-2 days), minimal, moves easily and not smelly.
Sure thing buddy, enjoy your meme diet while you can lol
Your bowel movement talking point doesn't match my experience, perhaps your prediction is just as accurate?
Maybe just google bowel issue research for your meme diet and all other proven dangers but clearly rationality is lost with something called "carnivore diet".
I actually have read the papers! But that is a different point altogether, let's get back on track....
this discussion was your personal experience with multiple carnivores who have persistent diarrhea, which doesn't match the experience of myself, or anecdotes of other strict carnivores I have spoken with. I'd like to know what kind of diet your personal connections are following? Do you mean carnivore as in no plant based foods, or in that they eat any meat at all?
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Where's that old Twitter bot that would append in mice to reports of these bullshit studies?
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this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2025
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