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I've always been curious how fascism takes hold, and how people like Hitler, Stalin. etc rise to power. Do people not see what is happening? Shouldn't hindsight, foresight and common sense kick in at some point? I used t think they were like mob bosses early on - anyone disagreeing with them ends up in a barrel, but surely were civilized and educated by now?

It seems the people don't want to jeopardize their comfortable livelihoods and individual lives so expect the 'powerful elected officials' to do their bidding. After all, the public gave them the power to do just that. Otoh, the politicians don't want to jeopardize their cushy jobs and accumulated power by challenging the majority, so are waiting for the public to start a jan6 situation so they can point and say, 'see, the people are unhappy so we should act'.

It's a shitstorm of no consequences and a man child hacking away at the country and no one seems to be doing anything meaningful. I'm literally watching fascism take place.

History/ psychology/ sociology majors care to chime in?

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[-] BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world 3 points 8 hours ago

There are two things you’ll want to read to get an idea of how and why fascism happens. The first is the essay Ur-Fascism by Umberto Eco. The second is the free ebook The Authoritarians by Dr Bob Altemeyer.

Between these two, you get a clear, measurable definition of what it means to be fascist and an explanation of the psychologies behind it.

[-] Nibodhika@lemmy.world 4 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

As I'm sure many have already told you Stalin was not a Fascist. I'm not sure if you're asking about fascists in specific and used a wrong example or about totalitarianism in general and used the wrong word.

For fascism in specific it's usually about a common enemy and economic crisis that can be pinned on that enemy. But there are other stuff as well, there's a great movie called "Die Welle" (The Wave) which is based on an actual scientific experiment called The Third Wave in which a teacher showed how fascism is able to take root.

For totalitarianism in general the answer is a lot more complex, each dictator grew to power their own way, but populism and fear mongering are common practices.

[-] JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world 2 points 9 hours ago

I asked about fascism in particular in the title, but certainly welcome input about other types of authoratarianism/ totalitarianism. It's the psychology of how they slip though the public view and entrenches itself that I'm most interested in, because of what is happening around us atm.

During psychology class, we were taught about the authority figure dilemma, in that normal, decent people proceeded to inflict (acted) pain on another just because some person in a lab coat asked them to. Just trying to form my understanding from the myriad inputs, as to why the public and elected joes seem so unable/ unwilling to act.

[-] SloppilyFloss@lemmy.ml 3 points 12 hours ago

If you're seriously wondering then I'd highly recommend reading Daniel Guerrin's Fascism and Big Business. And Antonio Gramsci's Prison Notebook, particularly the section The Problem of Political Leadership in the Formation and Development of the Nation and the Modern State in Italy.

[-] FreshParsnip@lemmy.ca 8 points 17 hours ago

Bigotry, that's how. People have problems, the economy is struggling. They need a scapegoat. So someone like Hitler or Trump convince them that all their problems are caused by jews or immigrants or LGBT people or some other minority group and that everything will be fixed by getting rid of that group

[-] outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

Dude just look outside.

Edit: i used to have big long lectures about the psychology of it, or how it exists as a system. But now you can just look outside.

[-] JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world 3 points 15 hours ago

Yeah. Trying to put it all into sense, perhaps using the lessons of history as a guide.

[-] outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 15 hours ago

Shit. Okay, ill type that up at some point when im the right amount of sober.

[-] Zombiepirate@lemmy.world 21 points 1 day ago

From They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1933 - 1945, in which the author Milton Mayer got to know and interviewed 10 Nazis (the mentioned "friends") about the rise of fascism:

Because the mass movement of Nazism was nonintellectual in the beginning, when it was only practice, it had to be anti- intellectual before it could be theoretical. What Mussolini’s official philosopher, Giovanni Gentile, said of Fascism could have been better said of Nazi theory: “We think with our blood.” Expertness in thinking, exemplified by the professor, by the high- school teacher, and even by the grammar- school teacher in the village, had to deny the Nazi views of history, economics, literature, art, philosophy, politics, biology, and education itself. Thus Nazism, as it proceeded from practice to theory, had to deny expertness in thinking and then (this second process was never completed), in order to fill the vacuum, had to establish expert thinking of its own— that is, to find men of inferior or irresponsible caliber whose views conformed dishonestly or, worse yet, honestly to the Party line. The nonpolitical pastor satisfied Nazi requirements by being nonpolitical. But the nonpolitical schoolmaster was, by the very virtue of being nonpolitical, a dangerous man from the first. He himself would not rebel, nor would he, if he could help it, teach rebellion; but he could not help being dangerous— not if he went on teaching what was true. In order to be a theory and not just a practice, National Socialism required the destruction of academic independence. In the years of its rise the movement little by little brought the community’s attitude toward the teacher around from respect and envy to resentment, from trust and fear to suspicion. The development seems to have been inherent; it needed no planning and had none. As the Nazi emphasis on nonintellectual virtues (patriotism, loyalty, duty, purity, labor, simplicity, “blood,” “folk- ishness”) seeped through Germany, elevating the self- esteem of the “little man,” the academic profession was pushed from the very center to the very periphery of society. Germany was preparing to cut its own head off. By 1933 at least five of my ten friends (and I think six or seven) looked upon “intellectuals” as unreliable and, among these unreliables, upon the academics as the most insidiously situated.

Anti-intellectualism isn't the only ingredient, but it's one of the most important. It's a reactionary movement that injects hate into people's hearts in order to consolidate power for the privileged. Those "little men" who support the regime feel that they were elevated above the people whom they hate, and were often the beneficiaries of the cruel treatment and dispossession of the victims.

[-] JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world 3 points 15 hours ago

It's terribly discouraging. Like you're being punished for taking the time to build yourself up. 'And the meek shall inherit the earth' also has these control undertones, as does every skilled worker made to work under the policies and management of an unskilled manager because he 'knew a guy'. 'Inferior' lol.

In my country we sarcastically remark 'its not what you know, it's who you know', while the quality of the workforce abd personal education continues to decline. More true now than ever.

[-] Jomega@lemmy.world 13 points 23 hours ago

Fascist propaganda is highly effective, and no one is immune to propaganda. Humans are emotional creatures, prone to being whipped up into a frenzy. You identify a(n imaginary) threat, and offer a very simple solution to it. The logic of whether or not the solution sounds morally correct doesn't matter because 1.) The problem is made up anyways and 2.) The propagandist is appealing to the id, not the superego.

Remember that thinking is the greatest threat to fascism, exercise your brain as often as possible.

[-] DecaturNature@yall.theatl.social 5 points 21 hours ago

If you are up for a big, dense piece of 1950s social philosophy, Hannah Arendt's "Origins of Totalitarianism" is a classic. It covers imperialism, racism, mob violence, antisemitism, propaganda, tolerance for lies, and the development of mythologies. It's got a lot of ideas - many of which have been challenged. It's also excessively wordy. One thing to keep in mind is that most of the components have been around for a long time -- supremacist ideologies, conspiracy theories, propaganda systems.

[-] JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world 2 points 15 hours ago

Thanks. If anything, I have a lot of reading to catch up on!

[-] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 59 points 1 day ago

People get frustrated by circumstances they don't necessarily understand. Fascists give them easy targets based on lies that feed the people's prejudice to place their blame, and introduce more and more oppressive social restrictions based on those easy targets while riling up public fears and so on.

That is how lies about immigrant and minority crime have primed the US populace to be ok with the military occupying the nation's capital based on blatant lies about crime rates.

[-] JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world 17 points 1 day ago

I've noted that. Tighten wages, blame the immigrants. Turn sentiment against them, gradually dehumanize them, then use force to ship them out. Apply to group of choice - foreign or domestic. 'Protecting rights' is just a rallying cry and a tool for the politicians.

[-] minnow@lemmy.world 39 points 1 day ago

There's an essay titled "Ur-Fascism" by Eco Umberto. It's available online for free, you can Google it. It might give you some good insight on the subject. It's mandatory reading, imo.

[-] prex@aussie.zone 15 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Big upvote for Umberto Eco. edit: may as well add some links.
ur-fascism & wikipedia
ecos website & to wikipedia page

[-] Olkiss@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Lack of education : History tells us what happened and how. But, people find it boring. It is true that what it is in the past must stay in the past but it still teaches so you do not make the same mistake again.

Make one main enemy/villain/ the cause of the problem (even if it is not): The most effective trick ever. (think like you are at work, you hate one colleague, you find out that another colleague hate the same colleague. You become friend.)

Make a second enemy/villain/ the cause of the problem (even if it is not): So you diffuse more problems (safe side - figure of speech.)

As one says: Divide and conquer (always works).

BUT ALWAYS a minority as it works better. You need to please the majority.

In general people are tired of ineffective politics: so they try something new and/or it resonates with them, meaning they see that it is maybe true that the problem is the example (s) given by the fascists/nazis/neonazis etc. But, they will not check if it is true as they think the politicians know what they do. Even if, if you think about it. Anyone can be a politician, you need to know how to speak, to present yourself well, to have a vision, to know how to gather people together, to lead. The rest you delegate to more competent people who know their fields.

Once the hook works, you work with the emotions, some facts (fake or not). You slightly change the narrative so it is matching your "vision", "ideology". This is where, usually, you can get them as you can double-check if it is true or not. This is where you see the true journalists at work. And through asking questions.

Example: LGBTQA+ community (quite a """""trend""""" to bash at (sarcasm)). A lot of politicians say that it is destroying the society, family, we need to protect the kids (the ultimate red flag of all) etc. One just need to ask them (politicians), the right questions. In what sense it is destroying the society? Etc, etc etc. So, you can show that what they say, their ideology is just fake, anti-human. etc. But, people do not do it or few. You can apply for each point of their speech.

(Besides, the most homophobic person is a gay in the closet. Grindr never lies!!!!!!)

Then, control, media, press etc. You slightly divide the majority so better control.

So basically, the same pattern that history teaches.

[-] JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

True. Politics has never been about truth, rather it's about perception and manipulation of said perception.

[-] iii@mander.xyz 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

BUT ALWAYS a minority as it works better. You need to please the majority.

For lemmy it's usually the mythical "one percent"

[-] iii@mander.xyz 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Not the whole answer, but alcohol and other drugs played a large part in the nazi regime (1).

My guess is that authoritarianism, just like drug use, is a response to depression. When you don't (want to) realise the hurt is coming from within, instead you think the world is out to hurt you, then you want more and more control.

[-] JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Now the drugs have been replaced by internet echo chambers? So you get the validation you want by people of the same opinion? Sounds dangerous.

[-] iii@mander.xyz 1 points 1 day ago

Some lemmy instances come to mind

[-] Libb@piefed.social 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)
  1. Mass of people stop learning/being taught how to deal with their emotions (and frustrations).
  2. Instead of being in control of their emotions (it's ok to disagree with anyone, to no like them or not be liked by them, that doesn't mean we should want to kill them or fear them to kill us) they let their emotions control them.
  3. They elect the one (who has been pushed forward by highly educated people, mind you) that is promising them all they wish for which, more often than not, revolves around giving them more money/power and a free pass to make hell out of the life of some other group(s) of persons they have long been hating on without any mean to meaningfully hurt them.

Education, or the absence of it, is key im_v_ho.

Which is why, this kind of news should worry and trigger urgent and radical answers from any country in which this happens. I'm not US, I'm French but we have the exact same tragedy that's unfolding here too and, beisde an few individual/isolated attempts, we have an almost exact copy of a total absence of nation-wide reaction. Everything is fine...

(How many US citizens have read the Project 2025? It's a book (not a cheap book, sure but the PDF is officially available for free)? I'm willing to bet not that many, as most people can't be bothered to read at all (they believe scrolling some headlines and tweets, and to have feelings and emotions, is more enough to understand and be the expert they are on absolutely any subject—which is another huge weakness that the lack of of working educative system is helping spread in the general population, one that is over-exploited by highly educated people). And they will even less so be willing to read a 900+ pages brick... even if that book may help them better understand who/what they may be about to vote for.)

Education, self-education at the very least, should be a top priority in a working democracy.

[-] JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Yes. I'm in Malaysia, and am part of a minority. We get daily news that we should definitely be concerned about, but since the majority are placated, there's hardly a whisper. It's only the minority complaining again. If not the politicians, then the religious leaders exploit this and further divide the groups.

[-] starlinguk@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

Look up Time Ghost's 'The Rise of Hitler' series on YouTube. They've also done a shorter one about Mussolini.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

People really like to blame outsiders for things, and are willing to believe they both deserve and have been denied everything and can have it on demand, even against all evidence. History and all the concerns that go into policy are actually uninteresting to most voters. Why fascism seems to bubble up in some periods more than others is more of a mystery.

It's probably a manifestation of something that made evolutionary sense when we lived in small, sovereign bands. In a lot of ways humanity is way out of it's depth, and we're doing remarkably well considering.

Stalin is a different beast, FYI. Russia had always been an autocracy, he just happened to be well-placed to be in charge of it's next incarnation after the revolution.

[-] JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

Yes, I gather that Stalin was the iron fist type, rising though pure ruthlessness, while Hitler and nazism was much more subtle, akin to what is happening in the us now. I'm currently working with a German guy, and am trying to.figure out how to broach the subject of how did common, decent people become so indoctrinated to an extreme right ideology.

I've never met an Israeli, but have met Iraqis under the Saddam regime. He felt it was more a going about his live thing, then the us came in and stirred shit up. I guess it's just hard to imaging dehumanizing people to the degree you start to accept these ideals.

The psychology is just fascinating. Thanks for your input!

[-] CanadaPlus@futurology.today 2 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

Yes, I gather that Stalin was the iron fist type, rising though pure ruthlessness,

That gives him too much credit. Stalin was relatively inconsequential in the rise and initial rule of the Bolsheviks, which happened under Lenin with Trotsky as a strong second in command. He just managed to palace intrigue his way to the top after Lenin died.

He did keep his power by purging everyone all the time, which is another thing that seems to work better on humans than pure rationality would suggest it should. People were never risk-tolerant enough to stop him, but also never risk-averse enough to avoid working for him, probably out of hubris.

I’m currently working with a German guy, and am trying to.figure out how to broach the subject of how did common, decent people become so indoctrinated to an extreme right ideology.

I'm going to recommend Ordinary Men, which is a book cataloging and analysing accounts of members of one of the battalions responsible for machine gunning people into ditches.

A random German won't necessarily be super into history. A random Israeli is liable to say it had nothing to do with fascism and everyone is always against the Jews specifically. History is still going on there, and there's no objectivity.

[-] Formfiller@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago

Well you’re in luck because all you have to do is look around because facism is taking hold as we speak

[-] yermaw@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 day ago

Its weird because we basically all agree its bad but its happening anyway. I keep feeling like someone should do something, but then like I'm someone and cant really do anything.

Are we all just waiting for someone to do something about it?

[-] papalonian@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

This. It's such a helpless, defeating feeling. If I looked out my window, and saw people rioting in the streets and fighting the police/ military, I'd immediately be engaging (and most likely immediately getting neutralized), if I had a company of like-minded individuals behind me I'd say let's determine a target. But all of us, you, me, everyone, have the same mindset: If we try, we will win, but if I try, I will die.

[-] TechieDamien@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 day ago

Try reading Blackshirts and Reds by Michael Parenti. Early on, it explains how fascism comes to power, who supports it and what can done to resist it.

[-] WhatGodIsMadeOf@feddit.org 11 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

The only person that will ever be on your true side is yourself. But you will be manipulated and taught otherwise by people that are scared of existence. In doing so they make you a pawn to calm their own existential anxiety.

Until people understand conquering their existential dread alone and finding peace in riding the wave of chaos of the universe, which is a constant, there will never be the peace that the others have claimed they will bring you.

[-] JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Interesting, and yes, the systems of civilization are the artificial construct, restrict human nature and would be a natural part of the change process. I'm reminded of Loki's statement to the crowd: 'humanity yearns for subjugation'. 'Mewling quims' was icing on the cake. Maybe we're not the alphas in the room.

[-] Reyali@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago

I recently finished reading The Cult of Trump by Steven Hassan. It’s from 2019 and so depressing with how much has happened since then that’s not accounted for, but it was interesting insight into how people like that can accumulate a following. It might help answer your question.

[-] JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Cool. Will look around for it. Thanks

[-] ominouslemon@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Do you know who Dan Harmon is? Creator of Community and Rick And Morty, IMHO a genius. He had a live podcast named Harmontown where he improvised a history lesson and he came up with this

It explains it all in a more convincing way than any historian could, imho. Besides being funny, he has a deep understanding of what makes humans tick and that's the whole point of how fascism happens

[-] IcedRaktajino@startrek.website 3 points 1 day ago

That kind of puts the scene where Rick keeps reanimating in different universes in a new light. Forget the episode, but he keeps coming out of his lab in a different universe and they're all fascist hellholes. He's like "Is this, like, the default setting or something?"

[-] Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Read the little book "The Wave" by Morton Rhue. He showed howit starts, with an impressive little example.

[-] Mister_Feeny@fedia.io 1 points 1 day ago

Damn, this was a book?! I remember it as an after school special.

this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2025
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