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Can they even track pirated installs ? (lemmy.dbzer0.com)

submitted 1 year ago by B3_CHAD@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com

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[-] TheGreatFox@lemm.ee 185 points 1 year ago

According to what Unity reps said elsewhere, they have no way of knowing what's a bought install, what's a demo, what's a charity bundle, what's a pirated install, and what is someone loading a webpage with a WebGL program integrated (every page view = 1 install).

Instead, they want to estimate how much people owe them. Using secret methods with no accountability.

[-] strawberry@artemis.camp 83 points 1 year ago

"according to our extensive research, when we multiplied how much we like you by fuckall, you owe us 20000"

[-] Beardedsausag3@kbin.social 32 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This is my kind of maths, add on p&p, handling, admin and VAT let's it call it a nice round milly. No, no questions at this time sorry.

[-] Mikina@programming.dev 13 points 1 year ago

Exactly. To me, this explanation sounds like they'll just magically estimate the numbers without really being able to prove it. And that sucks.

However, we can be sure that developers will have their own analytics, that are probably way more accurate and they know exactly how many people have played or installed their game. And I'm betting that this number will be a lot smaller than the Unity "estimation", and people will get even more angry.

[-] yote_zip@pawb.social 156 points 1 year ago

Now I can finally download a game 100000x to bankrupt a game company, just like they always said we could.

[-] kniescherz@feddit.de 39 points 1 year ago

Well you would just have to download it once. But install it 1000000 times. Sounds like a lot of work.

[-] Contort3860@links.hackliberty.org 40 points 1 year ago

Not if you automate it with a good script and run it on a few machines at a time.

[-] Grimpen@lemmy.ca 38 points 1 year ago

Virtualization is the key. Multiple VMs, installing, uninstalling, reinstalling.

[-] Contort3860@links.hackliberty.org 17 points 1 year ago

Hell, that's even better. Running scripts on a bunch of VMs on a couple hundred server machines. If that doesn't do it, I don't know what will.

[-] 50MYT@aussie.zone 25 points 1 year ago

A webGL program that just sends the packet with the install count details.

You could send 200 packets a second easy.

[-] FARTYSHARTBLAST@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 year ago

This is the real answer.

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[-] meat_popsicle@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago

Easy enough to do with PowerShell and just leaving the box running.

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[-] Nilz@sopuli.xyz 33 points 1 year ago

We have come full circle. Hurray?

[-] 50MYT@aussie.zone 19 points 1 year ago

Does EA use unity...

[-] remotelove@lemmy.ca 13 points 1 year ago

Doesn't matter. Regardless of what Unity said their "Enterprise" plan was, it doesn't matter.

B2B deals just work differently since both companies have more at stake. If a company like EA used Unity, there is no way Unity would want to lose that contract and EA couldn't afford to drop Unity. Large companies will likely go through a few short renegotiation meetings, if that.

Plus, lawyers. If Unity even tries to force this on its larger customers, they are going to be hauled into court and most likely lose. When they lose, Unity will likely be liable for court costs as well.

[-] Thorned_Rose@kbin.social 77 points 1 year ago

RED FLAGS!! red flaaags. RED FLAAAGS, get your red flags heeeeere folks 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩

[-] Kata1yst@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago

Do you have a special going if I need more than one?

[-] Thorned_Rose@kbin.social 25 points 1 year ago

Red flags are always free. Upfront anyway. You pay for them at an unexpected time in unpleasant ways later. So feel free to have as many as Unity is providing. 😊

[-] dingus@lemmy.ml 69 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It would mean every Unity game was not-so-secretly shipped with code that phones home to the Unity company upon install.

Either they've been egregiously spying on gamers for years (and by extension, game developers using Unity have just been fine with that), or they're lying through their teeth.

[-] EddyBot@feddit.de 31 points 1 year ago

Unity includes telemetry for some time
I believe you can't actually disable the telemetry (or Unity intro logo) in the "free" version

[-] dingus@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 year ago

So then this falls under "devs didn't care" because it was useful information for them and they didn't see how it could be used negatively.

[-] MossyFeathers@pawb.social 17 points 1 year ago

Probably the opposite actually. The devs who utilize the feature probably enjoy having some numbers to look at and analyze. They're trying to make a game that people enjoy after all; the more info they have on how you're playing the game, the better. The devs who don't use it probably aren't even aware that it exists. Additionally, I'm not sure if it requires a subscription to view the telemetry (the page suggests you have to sign up for it in some capacity), but if it does then it makes sense that devs might believe that it's something that's disabled until you manually enable it.

Personally, I know if I was a dev I'd be checking that shit every day. I like watching the funny numbers go up and down.

[-] ace@lemmy.ananace.dev 66 points 1 year ago

I love their response to (paraphrasing) "Are you going to do another Darth Vader and alter the deal on us in the future?" - "Oh yes, potentially every year."

[-] Malgas@beehaw.org 15 points 1 year ago

Is it just me, or does "we have a proprietary data model that calculates..." sound an awful lot like "we have no actual method of tracking that"?

[-] ace@lemmy.ananace.dev 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

To me it sounds a lot like "We don't really want to answer that question, so here's a bit of technobabble to ease your mind."

I mean, writing your own linked list in C and then summing its values could be considered as having "a proprietary data model that calculates", but it has basically nothing to do with the question on how they track such things, just hints that they're not using an existing - and proven - tracking method.

To clarify; they took the question "How are you tracking installs" to mean "With your tracking data, how are you counting installs", and then basically answered "We add the numbers together"
This is a complete non-answer, and it seems to suggest that their actual tracking method is likely unreliable.

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[-] teft@startrek.website 51 points 1 year ago

Why couldn't someone set up a script to install, uninstall, and reinstall Unity games on a loop? That would fuck with their numbers hardcore.

[-] SomeBoyo@feddit.de 29 points 1 year ago

They don't care. That would fuck the creator instead.

[-] wolfshadowheart@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago

Right but if it's something that's affecting every single creator then why would anyone continue to want to use Unity

[-] Yglorba@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The only reason people will continue using Unity is because they've already made )or are in the process of making) a game using it and switching to something else would waste massive amounts of time and effort. Unity is depending on this - this is basically them squeezing everything out of existing customers without regard for long term growth.

Remember, the whole idea here is that Unity is demanding payments for already existing games. They clearly don't care about whether people keep using Unity for new games in the future; the executives who made this decision will have cashed out and will be long gone by the time all the existing Unity games in the pipeline are done and things dry up.

[-] hitmyspot@aussie.zone 14 points 1 year ago

They will try to sell based on future payments owed, or projected earnings. Then they will be sued by a big guy for breach of contract, having changed the terms without consent.

Then the money will disappear. Already, the engine will be abandoned. Unity is dead now.

Foss is available and with the programming community now incentivised to use it, it should do well. That might be their play. They knew the end was nigh.

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[-] ExceedinglyPanWoofer@yiffit.net 11 points 1 year ago

If I'm reading this right, it isn't even the real numbers they're working with. It's their "proprietary data model."

[-] nooneescapesthelaw@lemmy.ml 45 points 1 year ago

If they could tell an install is pirated then they would lock it down

They either count all installs as legitimate or pirated copies are not picked up by their telemetry

[-] lauha@lemmy.one 16 points 1 year ago

Why would you ever let a pirated copy online anyway

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[-] PixeIOrange@feddit.de 39 points 1 year ago

All points made in that post are LMAO.

They estimate the installs. Or least thats what remains between they wont track installs and they have a proprietary data model to calculate them.

Enshittification takes its course.

[-] QuarterlySushi@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago

rofl seriously? Not only will they charge for the installs, but they won’t even use the actual number of installs - they’ll guess? This is the most hilariously stupid business model I’ve ever heard of

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[-] uriel238 29 points 1 year ago

Can I pirate just the Unity bits, so they don't telemetrize?

[-] rockhandle@lemm.ee 13 points 1 year ago

Firewall your pirated games

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[-] echodot@feddit.uk 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Oh it's our fault for being confused is it, ok.

What a jackass.

Oh and look at that they are 100% going to increase the price on you down the line.

[-] Jaysyn@kbin.social 28 points 1 year ago

Which company will become insolvent 1st, Twitter or Unity?

[-] rockhandle@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago

I would place my bets on unity. It has tougher competition imo

[-] randompepsi@lemmy.ml 24 points 1 year ago

No, they can not. This is just a standard PR response.

[-] elxeno@lemm.ee 22 points 1 year ago

So those who aren't victims of piracy will be "fairly hurt"?

[-] aport@programming.dev 15 points 1 year ago

Unity jumped the shark.

Engine was trash anyway. Unreal for lyfe.

[-] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 40 points 1 year ago

Proprietary software A is bad. Long live proprietary software B!

(Or maybe check out Godot)

[-] sanpedropeddler@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago

Unreal is open source, although it isn't free. I would certainly prefer it to unity though.

[-] Euphoma@lemmy.ml 21 points 1 year ago

Its not open source, its source available because you can't distribute modifications to unreal.

[-] MossyFeathers@pawb.social 8 points 1 year ago

Nah, unity is/was a good engine. The reason why it has a bad reputation is for the same reason that Game maker used to have a bad reputation. Almost everyone who's learning how to make games uses Unity because it's easy to use, is extremely well documented, and has a massive store full of add-on scripts, programs, model sets, etc. As such, all the poorly optimized games and 0-effort asset flips end up being made in unity (though I've seen some unreal games that make even the most poorly optimized Unity game look good). The result? Even though there are a number of high-quality, highly-regarded games that use unity, it has a reputation for being a shitty engine.

Don't believe me? Keep an eye on Godot or Unreal. If unity sticks to their new license, then it's highly likely that one of those engines will become the new "newbie engine" and gain a reputation for being shitty.

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