This 81-year-old still works at Home Depot to support herself and her 90-year-old husband : aboringdystopia

[-] thespawnkiller@lemmy.world 10 points 13 hours ago

This is what countries without a good social support network look like. It's either government or younger generations that take care of elders. The US used to be government with retirement and social security but there's a shift and US kids were not raised in a social situation that supports elderly, so it's going to be a hard transition. The US has forgotten what the government was established for.

[-] RymrgandsDaughter@lemmy.world 6 points 20 hours ago

Yeah well old people are the reason old people have to work like this

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 5 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

To be fair, oppression has existed in every generation. We are not immune, polling makes that very clear. As another example, the leaders of the generation that made the post world war 2 boom did everything in their power to prevent black people from benefitting. Just like the leaders of the baby boomers and silent generation decided to fuck over poor people and begin the regression to another gilded age in the 1970's.

[-] Digestive_Biscuit@feddit.uk 2 points 13 hours ago

And when you're old you'll be the reason why other old people get blamed for the shit state of the world by the younger people.

[-] yonderbarn@lazysoci.al 16 points 1 day ago

I hate seeing old people working at establishments like grocery stores. It is the saddest representation that our system does not work. They should be living their life traveling, spending time with family, or gardening. No one should have to work into their 60's.

[-] DarkFuture@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago

Hi,

Welcome to the Universe. You get to exist for a comparatively extremely short blip of time before you return to the nothingness forever. Despite incredible advances in technology and subsequent major increases in productivity we're going to need you to continue working right up until you return to the nothingness. Thanks for your cooperation!

[-] HubertManne@piefed.social 23 points 1 day ago

At least its not being presented as a feel good story. Still remember bush brining up the person with three jobs as inspiring.

[-] DarkFuture@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Gotta love it when nepo babies tell us how virtuous working is.

[-] yarr@feddit.nl 29 points 1 day ago

Whew. I'm so glad this couple wasn't subject to the horrors of socialism! Only capitalism can keep them gainfully employed until they are near-death. No other economic system can even compare!

[-] SoleInvictus 15 points 1 day ago

Don't forget that capitalism is literally the only viable economic system, full stop. Before its advent in 1463 by Bernard H. Capital, nothing worked, anywhere, for tens of thousands of years. The world was in turmoil. Cats associated freely with dogs, the Keebler elves were not properly enslaved, and humans lived on a diet of pine needles, grubs, and sea water. Pure madness.

[-] Soup@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

Remember: Capitalism came about from rich merchants and lords realizing that citizens were starting to get murdery about their tyrranical monarchs so they basically said “hey, what if we make a system based on money that technically everyone has but where the shear amount of wealth we have in comparison means that we’re basically still monarchs without monarchy?”

Which, to relate to your comment, is to say that the system hasn’t meaningfully changed and we’ve had “capitalism” for a long, long time(and it’s sucked the whole time it was happening!)

[-] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 160 points 2 days ago

My eighty year-old parents are driving for DoorDash. In my car.

If they don't, this supposedly 'free' country of ours will allow banks to force them onto the streets where they will be left for dead.

Fuck capitalism.

[-] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 49 points 2 days ago

in before a republican tries to sell this as excellent work ethics, patriotism and american dream

[-] BeardedGingerWonder@feddit.uk 4 points 1 day ago

On Lemmy?

[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 72 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I feel sorry for the 81 year old and her husband. However, they have made nearly every wrong financial decision over most of their lives.

In 1994 husband was making $90k a year and quit that job to start up a band and teach music lessons
They bought a fixer-upper house in 2002 to flip it, except they still had it in hand in 2008 when the real estate market crashed
They had $75k in the market prior to the crash, and sold it all at the bottom of the market before the rebound.
They never saved more than $10k in a 401k
They defaulted on their mortgage in 2015 and lost he house, but did gain $115k from the forced sale.
They declared bankruptcy (it doesn't say when). Usually this protects the house, as in you're not kicked out. So I can't quite square why the house was forced for sale if they were under bankruptcy protection. This is a clue they had a lot more debt than just the house.
"The income from a side business Lydia had started to help people downsize their homes, and the piano lessons that Bill gave, weren't enough." This was 2015 and at best their only income was a couple small side hustles. Admittedly they were in their early 70s at this point.
Even today it looks like they're spending over 20% of their income on car related expenses (payment, insurance, gas).
They're also still living in Connecticut which looks to be more expensive place to live. A quick Google search of West Virginia 55+ one bedroom apartments go for $450-$900. So they could probably cut their rent in half if they moved to a cheaper city/state.

They've truly had some horrible timing and luck, however I truly hope their situation improves.

[-] yonderbarn@lazysoci.al 1 points 16 hours ago

You might be able to make an argument for this grandma, but there are countless others. You can't deny we have a systemic problem that leaves seniors out in the cold

[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 1 points 13 hours ago

You might be able to make an argument for this grandma, but there are countless others. You can’t deny we have a systemic problem that leaves seniors out in the cold

My comments are only about the couple in the article. The reason that is important is that the couple in the article are not the archetype we need to solve for. Its, as you point out, all the countless others. In effect, we should not look at this couple to see how to solve the problem of our senior citizens not able to age/live gracefully.

[-] YtA4QCam2A9j7EfTgHrH@infosec.pub 88 points 2 days ago

Who gives a shit? No one should have to spend their 80s working

[-] MissJinx@lemmy.world 48 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I understand the sentiment but what he is saying is also important. Imagine, starting tomorrow everyone above 60 will get 5000 dolars every month. Will this couple in particular be able to live with it or will they make more bad choices.

I'm 100% pro supporting the retired community but Financial literacy is also very important, otherwise it doesn't matter how much money you give them.

It's so important to teach finamcial literacy from an early age

edit: just to add I'm not american. My.mother is 70yo and in my country retirement is supported by the government, but she still makes shitty choices from time to time.

[-] a_wild_mimic_appears@lemmy.dbzer0.com 23 points 2 days ago

That's why you don't give out money, you subsidize what people need in their age - rent, mobility, care. You can't make wrong decisions with money that is bound to services - it also means whatever comes, they are neither threatened by homelessness nor isolation. But that would be socialism, and we know how the US thinks about that, regardless of consequences like letting old people die in the streets.

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[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 17 points 2 days ago

Who gives a shit? No one should have to spend their 80s working

They are today still making choices which are forcing them to work. They might be able to not work if they move to a cheaper area and give up their expensive car.

[-] sexy_peach@feddit.org 11 points 2 days ago

Like move to a different state? They have family and friends there probably and also moving can be expensive.

But I agree, some people can make bad financial choices, but mostly it's not educated choices. So they need help either way, probably financially and consulting.

[-] chilicheeselies@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

Then they have a new problem; isolation. Given having to work or be isolated, work is better

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[-] Dogyote@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 day ago

Why is it that every comment chain about an unfortunate event has at least one callous person who is obviously victim blaming but trying their best to downplay it?

I'll ask you directly, why are you doing this, partial_accumen? Are you trying to convince yourself that this couldn't happen to you? Are you perhaps trying to convince yourself to stick with your soul-sucking yet decent paying job? What's your motivation?

[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 1 points 21 hours ago

Why is it that every comment chain about an unfortunate event has at least one callous person who is obviously victim blaming but trying their best to downplay it? I’ll ask you directly, why are you doing this, partial_accumen? What’s your motivation?

I can't speak for every comment chain, only this one. For this one I CAN respond to you.

For so much of life we are powerless. The forces and events are beyond us and we're simply swept away suffering whatever fate chances gives us. Its frightening and very real. As an example, someone born into a war torn country had no control over the geography of their birth. They are at constant risk of death. There are only a few small things a person can do in that situation and very few of them will result in meaningful change. They will likely be victim of the circumstances that were handed to them through no fault of their own.

None of that is what this 80+ couple is.

This couple has had opportunity after opportunity handed to them. They chose again and again to choose the risky, easy, or comfortable path. They are still doing that even today in a couple areas! This couple is NOT simply victims of circumstance. They had power and ability to affect massive positive change on their present and future existence throughout the second half of their lives (which is as far back as the article goes). Instead at many turns they chose options that point to THIS path. The one with the wife having to work at Home Depot at 81.

Conflating my prior example and this couple together as simply victims does a disservice to the former. It also paints a picture that the couple's path is inevitable for all of us, and it isn't! It is valuable to learn from the mistakes of others so that we do not make the same mistakes ourselves.

Are you trying to convince yourself that this couldn’t happen to you?

It won't. Something else will, but THIS won't. Others that look at and learn how this couple lived will also be spared their fate, because we can examine what mistakes they made and change course ourselves so that we don't end up in their avoidable situation.

I feel sympathy for them, as I have stated multiple times. I fully understand that we all make mistakes. None of us are perfect. Circumstances did a number on them, but they are not blameless for their situation. There are many in similar situations to this couple that are blameless. Those others have much more sympathy from me.

[-] Dogyote@slrpnk.net 1 points 16 hours ago

I would argue that they were in fact victims of circumstance. The 2008 mortgage implosion seems to be the root of their troubles. I doubt they thought they were making subpar choices in the aftermath. Putting the blame on them really shifts focus from the elephant in the room, that our society should provide a baseline level of dignified existance for the elderly and infirm no matter the quality of their life choices.

Suggesting they move to west virginia because it's cheaper is a ridiculous idea that only someone who lacks life experience would propose. I'm calling out a kid, aren't I?

Your writing is too verbose and lacks tact.

[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 1 points 13 hours ago

I would argue that they were in fact victims of circumstance. The 2008 mortgage implosion seems to be the root of their troubles.

I would disagree with you. The root of their trouble started in 1994. The husband was making the equivalent of $195,221.66/year and quit that job to start a band. They could have been set for life if he worked just a few years at that job and saved for retirement. How badly would you blame anyone today that quit a nearly $200k/year job to start a band, and then had a tough time covering their basic needs in retirement?

I doubt they thought they were making subpar choices in the aftermath.

It looks like right now they're paying on a vehicle that cost at least $37,000. They are still making bad choices.

Putting the blame on them really shifts focus from the elephant in the room, that our society should provide a baseline level of dignified existance for the elderly and infirm no matter the quality of their life choices.

I'll be the first one to say we need something like UBI, but we do have a system in place that provides a baseline level: Social Security. As I pointed out, their income they are receiving today would give them hundreds of dollars in surplus if they didn't live in Connecticut, but instead in a lower cost of living area. Again, they're choosing to live in a more expensive place forcing the wife to work. It was no mystery how much they would be getting in Social Security when they retired. I can look up right now how much I'll get when I retire. The disconnect seems to be them not doing simply math to see what a sustainable path is. Now, I'm sure there is more to it that my simplification above for their specific circumstances, but even with additional complexity the simply math by itself doesn't add up to a sufficient answer before adding any other life complexity/challenges.

Suggesting they move to west virginia because it’s cheaper is a ridiculous idea that only someone who lacks life experience would propose. I’m calling out a kid, aren’t I?

I lack life experience? I think I could accuse you of that if this is your take. Life doesn't always go as we want. You don't get to do something just because you want to. You do what you have to in life to live. Sometimes that means moving for work, or making choices you wouldn't like to do otherwise. This is a lesson our couple didn't seem to learn as it looks like they're living above their means and having to kill themselves working far into their years to continue on this path, nor is it one it sounds like you've had to experience yet. What the wife is doing, working at Home Depot, isn't sustainable. What is their plan when she can't work? Who is going to pay the rent and the expensive car payment? They have no plan B. They still aren't looking at their circumstances and making changes to secure their futures for the years they have level.

Further, West Virginia was an example of cheaper cost of living place to live. I'm not prescribing that's the only place on the planet they can go and live within their means. I wouldn't not have told them to end up where the are in circumstances. I am simply taking what they have left and suggesting an alternative that addresses the fire in the room, her working at 81 to keep a roof over their heads. On this current path, they're headed for homelessness if they don't change course.

Your writing is too verbose

Sorry, this is how I talk and write. You're under no obligation to interact with me if it bothers you that much. I'm certainly not changing just for you.

and lacks tact.

Your first response to me was accusing me of victim blaming. I'm following your tone on tact.

[-] Dogyote@slrpnk.net 1 points 12 hours ago

I get where you're coming from, but I don’t think it holds up the way you’re framing it. Pinning the root of their trouble on a decision made in 1994 is a bit of a reach. You’re talking about a 30-year-old choice—one that may not have panned out financially, sure, but let’s not act like anyone who steps off the traditional path is just writing themselves into a future of failure. People take risks. Sometimes they pay off, sometimes they don’t. That doesn’t make someone reckless or undeserving of support three decades later. You’re applying hindsight like a hammer, and it oversimplifies everything that likely happened in between.

And honestly, the “$200k job to start a band” line feels a little too convenient. Maybe he quit for health, burnout, family reasons—we don’t know. Framing it as a dumb, selfish move is an assumption dressed up as fact. Life’s not a spreadsheet. People don’t always make optimal economic choices, and pretending everyone has the foresight, stability, and circumstances to do so just isn't realistic.

As for the $37,000 car—yeah, that’s not ideal. But again, you’re pulling one purchase out of what’s probably a complicated financial picture and using it to write off their entire decision-making process. Have you priced reliable vehicles lately? Even used ones? You don’t know if that was their only option after a breakdown or if it was financed under pressure. It’s easy to diagnose “bad choices” from the outside when you’re not in the thick of it.

And about “doing what you have to”—I agree in principle. Life is about hard choices. But let's not pretend that “just move to a cheaper state” is some silver bullet. Moving costs money. Leaving behind your doctors, your social support network, everything familiar—that’s not nothing. It’s not just a matter of pulling up Zillow and hopping a U-Haul to West Virginia. The fact that you think that’s a simple fix kind of underlines how disconnected this solution is from the reality of aging in poverty.

You say they have no Plan B. That’s fair, maybe. But they also don’t have many cards left to play. Working at 81 isn’t ideal—but it’s what they’ve got. And instead of asking “why didn’t they plan better 30 years ago?” maybe ask why we expect any 81-year-old to be keeping a job just to afford rent. That’s not a personal failure—that’s a systemic one. The fact that they’re still working shows grit. The fact that they have to shows a breakdown in the system we’re all supposed to be able to rely on someday.

You’re focused on their past decisions like they were filling out a retirement strategy on a clean whiteboard. But most people aren’t living with that level of control, especially over decades. You don’t know their full story, just some snapshots, and you’re building a moral framework around it. That’s fine if you want to play armchair financial advisor, but don’t pretend it’s empathy.

And yeah, they're in a bad spot. But treating them like a cautionary tale instead of real people facing a brutal system isn’t going to help them—or anyone else headed in the same direction.

[-] Romkslrqusz@lemmy.zip 10 points 1 day ago

Were they supposed to use their crystal ball to predict the 2008 grift and subsequent rebound?

In your list, nearly everything that comes after that is a symptom of trying to navigate financial hardship.l and being old enough to face age discrimination in the job market.

[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 1 points 13 hours ago

In your list, nearly everything that comes after that is a symptom of trying to navigate financial hardship

Which symptom cause the husband to quit his nearly $200,000/year job in 1994 and start a band without saving for retirement first?

[-] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago

A quick Google search of West Virginia 55+ one bedroom apartments go for $450-$900.

Bwah ha ha. This may surprise you, but one of the reasons apartments are so cheap in WV is that there are no jobs in WV. And definitely not jobs for octogenarians.

[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Bwah ha ha. This may surprise you, but one of the reasons apartments are so cheap in WV is that there are no jobs in WV. And definitely not jobs for octogenarians.

If they are living in WV, as an example, they don't need the additional income from a job to live. I'm suggesting they move *so they don't have to work.

[-] nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 1 day ago

Sorry but your last point is absolutely asinine. It ignores the hardships caused by relocating, the fact that rural hospitals like those available in WV are continuously shutting their doors as they are deemed unprofitable (the husband has health problems), and the fact that, based upon a wealth of international studies, the isolation from social support networks that they'd assuredly face, is pretty much a death sentence.

So, from that point alone, your statement could be paraphrased as: "They don't need to live in such an unaffordable place; they could just die instead."

[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

the isolation from social support networks that they’d assuredly face, is pretty much a death sentence.

They are THIS CLOSE to homelessness right now. Is homelessness for an 81 year old woman with a 90 year old husband not also a death sentence?

[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Sorry but your last point is absolutely asinine.

....and...

is pretty much a death sentence.

What do you call being forced to work at 81 (with a 90 year old non-working husband), and only being able to work 4 of the 5 hour shift because you're exhausted? How about the fact that they are THIS CLOSE to being homeless if she doesn't work? They've had bad luck and made bad choices for most of the second half of their lives. We don't have any good solutions left only least worst.

You're saying that moving is a death sentence. I'm saying homelessness is, which is what is in their near future.

[-] nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 1 day ago

What do you call being forced to work at 81 (with a 90 year old non-working husband), and only being able to work 4 of the 5 hour shift because you're exhausted?

I call it "absolutely fucked up".

You're saying that moving is a death sentence. I'm saying homelessness is, which is what is in their near future.

Maybe I took you the wrong way, if so, my apologies. I think that this is a case of both statements bring correct. They are effectively being murdered through fiscal policy and corruption.

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[-] bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 15 points 1 day ago

Man that sucks.

However I have to be that person and say I know people who wasted tons of money on stupid shit and made dumb choices even though they had advisors helping them, and are working at Walmart in their 70s because of it. Those people shouldn't be rewarded with regular Joe's money. Now, billionaires can foot that bill, like they should everything. But dont punish the 99.9% (which is what will actually happen. And why people are afraid of liberals in office. No one seems to get that, and thats why the right keeps winning. It needs to be clearly stated in the lefts playbook that anyone making under a billion dollars will be left alone. Then they may have a chance.)

Keep in mind these are not my thoughts, these are my observations of the Common Person in red states.

[-] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 73 points 2 days ago

Welcome to what younger generations realized a decade ago or more. Most of us will never own a home or retire. I plan to end it when my life becomes unbearable in old age rather than be a slave to the system. That’s why, even though we (spouse and I) financially save for the future, I live for now. We (collectively) have no future. Accepting it is easier than being depressed about it.

Note: this doesn’t mean I don’t do what I can to try to save our (collective) future. It’d be selfish not to try.

[-] return2ozma@lemmy.world 46 points 2 days ago

Somebody launch my carcass through a billionaires front window please when I'm old.

[-] MeatPilot@lemmy.world 29 points 2 days ago

Only if I can strap dynamite to you first.

[-] return2ozma@lemmy.world 16 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Duh. Thank you MeatPilot

[-] Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 day ago

Shove it in my ass please

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[-] AJ1@lemmy.ca 12 points 2 days ago

My retirement plan is assisted suicide (in Canada, of course). Feels weird to be saving for death, but this is the reality we live in. What else can I do? Wait until I can't work anymore and can't pay my mortgage and hydro bill? And then what, hang myself in the barn? Fuck that, I want to go out high af and feeling no pain.

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[-] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 36 points 2 days ago

LOL
loser country

[-] return2ozma@lemmy.world 66 points 2 days ago

"I feel trapped working, but I can't stop working," Lydia says, sitting up to cuddle her basset hound, Brigette. Her husband, Bill, gives her a kiss but lets her be. The 90-year-old would like to get a job to help Lydia pay the bills, but because of health problems, there's little he can do.

"I feel so guilty that I can't work," Bill says.

"You can't work because of your age and your health issues," Lydia snaps back. "There's no sense feeling guilty about it."

[-] roofuskit@lemmy.world 65 points 2 days ago

'Murica

On Reddit this would be an uplifting story about how Home Depot employs the elderly to help them pay medical bills.

[-] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 42 points 2 days ago

Most of the MSM outlets report it that way, and it always feels ghoulish as fuck to me.

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[-] HowAbt2day@futurology.today 14 points 2 days ago

This generation needs to pick itself up by their bootstraps and remember that work dignifies. 81 years young! /s

[-] AngryRobot@lemmy.world 15 points 2 days ago

I'm about to turn 52 and I've known my whole life that I'd never get to retire.

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A Boring Dystopia