689
submitted 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) by Pro@programming.dev to c/technology@lemmy.world
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[-] richardwallass@sh.itjust.works 40 points 5 days ago

I will sue you because you broke my ransomware.

[-] Australis13@fedia.io 156 points 6 days ago

Hopefully Newag (the manufacturer) loses this case. This is malicious design on Newag's part.

[-] doeknius_gloek@discuss.tchncs.de 136 points 6 days ago

Malicious design is putting it mildly. This is fraud with a bit of blackmail sprinkled in. They bricked perfectly functioning trains that their customers already had paid for, because another workshop was chosen for servicing them after the warranty period of the train ended. Then they charged over 20k € to unlock trains they deliberately locked before. The unlocking itself took them 10 minutes.

In a just world the Newag CEOs would go to jail for this, but sadly we all know this won't happen.

[-] TauZero@mander.xyz 33 points 5 days ago

fraud

Sabotage. Property made unusable. Passengers were literally stranded in the middle of a journey.

[-] Saleh@feddit.org 15 points 5 days ago

Yeah, this has a criminal component of endangering train traffic and putting hundreds of lives at risk.

This is not merely fraud or property damage. This should be seen in the context of attempted homicide.

[-] Tja@programming.dev 3 points 5 days ago

The story I read the trains were bricked in the maintenance yards. Do you have the source about passangers?

[-] JakenVeina@midwest.social 10 points 5 days ago

This very article.

And one batch of the 45WE EMU (electric multiple unit, the kind of train that doesn’t have a separate engine up front to pull the passenger cars), would switch off automatically when passing through the Mińsk Mazowiecki railway station. Trains full of passengers were left stranded.

[-] Tja@programming.dev 5 points 5 days ago

Thanks! (I hope you didn't expect me to read the article, I'm too cool for that!)

[-] JakenVeina@midwest.social 4 points 5 days ago

Oh, certainly not.

[-] Terevos@lemmy.world 119 points 6 days ago

Every potential buyer of trains should ban this company from new sales.

[-] voodooattack@lemmy.world 69 points 5 days ago

Yeah. I’m not buying another train from them ever again

[-] Asfalttikyntaja@sopuli.xyz 23 points 5 days ago

Same here. Fucking train makers.

[-] Terevos@lemmy.world 9 points 5 days ago

Good for you! I'm going to boycott them, too.

[-] iglou@programming.dev 2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Same. My personal Home <-> Work line will never see a Newag train.

[-] elucubra@sopuli.xyz 13 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

I was just thinking this. I imagine that there is only a few hundred train operators in the world, so they can all be reached easily, and would pay attention to the Polish rail operator.

Simply explain the whole ordeal and bullshittery, and let them know what will happen to them.

It's unlikely that Newag would get another sale. They are fucking with mainly state operator, who have a LOT of time and resources.

If I were the Polish operator, I would have found a new hobby.

[-] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 4 points 5 days ago

Operator in my country luckily ordered a bunch of Škodas to complement and replace the old Stadlers, so I don't think we're gonna be using Newag any time soon.

[-] Capricorn_Geriatric@lemmy.world 23 points 4 days ago

For what? Being decent human beings?

[-] Trihilis@ani.social 9 points 4 days ago

Yeah apparently that's a crime nowadays.

[-] HertzDentalBar 37 points 5 days ago
[-] mitrosus@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 5 days ago

Quote of this century.

[-] AnarchistArtificer@lemmy.world 74 points 6 days ago

I keep a small list titled "illegal heroes", and these hackers are on that list. It's bullshit that they're being hounded like this.

[-] 0xD@infosec.pub 10 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

They are not illegal heroes, they are pentesters and were paid by train company SPS who were using these trains.

https://media.ccc.de/v/37c3-12142-breaking_drm_in_polish_trains

They had a talk at CCC 2 years ago, and last one too I think. It's pretty funny.

[-] socialsecurity@piefed.social 55 points 5 days ago

When corporation does crime and has the balls to sue the victims

EU companies are learning well from the US!

[-] jjagaimo@sh.itjust.works 67 points 6 days ago

Newag executives should be in jail for fraud

[-] TauZero@mander.xyz 54 points 6 days ago

Newag [train maker] claims that the Dragon Sector [whitehat hacker] team endangered passengers’ safety by modifying the software without proper experience. But Newag then turns right around and claims that Dragon Sector did not modify the software at all. They point out that EU law only allows reverse engineering of software in order to fix bugs. And if Dragon Sector did not actually modify the software, it cannot have fixed any bugs, in which case their reverse-engineering must be illegal.

[-] Venus_Ziegenfalle@feddit.org 12 points 5 days ago

So if they just say they were gonna get to the bug fixing part but haven't yet they're in the clear. Boom, another decisive victory for the Dragon Sector.

[-] Cort@lemmy.world 3 points 5 days ago

Train company response: it's a feature, not a bug, so you're still guilty

[-] defaultusername@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Do they... not know what reverse engineering means?

[-] TauZero@mander.xyz 20 points 5 days ago

It's worse. They are saying that the EU copyright law, as written, only allows decompiling/reverse engineering to "fix bugs". A bug fix would involve a software patch of some sorts. But the security researchers did not have time to write a patch yet, what they did is tell the customer "Yep, it's fucked. Your vendor put in a killswitch to make the trains brick themselves." So that does tell them where the problem is, but it is not a bona fide bug fix from the Bugfix region of France, and therefore illegal.

[-] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 15 points 5 days ago

Ah so it's just sparkling engineering

[-] dev_null@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 days ago

But the security researchers did not have time to write a patch yet

This is not true. They never intended, and said would never try to make any modifications to the train software, because it would be very illegal, you can't make modifications to the trains without the train having to go through recertification again and they have no credentials to be making any modifications to trains.

They only analysed a copy of the software, and found secret undocumented unlock codes that could just be typed in at the cabin without having to modify anything.

[-] hsr@lemmy.dbzer0.com 30 points 5 days ago

After a bit of digging it looks like Newag has had a steady supply of government contracts:

25.01.2023 - 10,7 billion PLN (2,5bn EUR) for EMUs

24.07.2024 - Newag CEO mentions current contracts with PKP Intercity total 9bn PLN (2bn EUR)

21.11.2024 - 7,7bn PLN (1,8bn EUR) for hybrid MUs

23.06.2025 - most recent one I could find, 270 million PLN, EMUs for a local railway

Stock is up 260% since June 2022

In Poland we don't negotiate with corporate terrorists, we throw money at them. 🙃

[-] jabjoe@feddit.uk 10 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

They should be being sued for doing anti repair tricks.

The guys exposing the anti repair tricks are the heroes here.

[-] einkorn@feddit.org 48 points 6 days ago
[-] wordmark@mas.to 29 points 6 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

@Pro #capitalism at its #worst (AGAIN)

2022, members of #DragonSector were called by a train repair shop Serwis Pojazdów Szynowych (#SPS) work out why #trains refusing to run. Digging into the code revealed a #software trap that would disable trains if they were anywhere near a #repair facility that wasn’t run by the manufacturer, Newag. But Newag used a pretty inaccurate way to determine when the trains were in a rival repair shop, which led to some unexpected consequences. #right2repair

[-] Konstant@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago

This is devious.

[-] arararagi@ani.social 8 points 4 days ago

Don't you love the anti-circumvention clause?

[-] richardwallass@sh.itjust.works 7 points 5 days ago

I couldn't tell better. "The sheep are made to be sheared". Each day, critical thinking fades a little more, leading people into a spiral of submission that has never been as swift and humiliating.

[-] slampisko@lemmy.world 9 points 5 days ago
[-] porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml 12 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

CCC was collecting some money for them last year, not sure if this is still active https://www.ccc.de/en/updates/2024/das-ist-vollig-entgleist

Edit: looks like they were past the goal they had then but if this goes on maybe 30k € won't be enough, hopefully someone sets something new up

this post was submitted on 29 Jul 2025
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